Message-ID: <200406211547.i5LFlkB29795@pop-3.dnv.wideopenwest.com>
From: mvp at joeware.net (joe)
Subject: M$ Getting Better?

The overall answer here is if you already have the opinion that MS sucks and
can do nothing right, it doesn't matter what they will do because it isn't
and won't ever be right for you. This is fine for you but a warning that
this kind of an attitude is the silly hide your head in the sand attitude MS
displayed for quite some time in regards to the internet and security.

You will also recall they realized they were making a mistake with the
internet and now they aren't doing too awfully badly in those terms. Last
time I heard, IE was the most popular browser with something like 70%+ of
the browsing done with IE. As for browsing OSes I think I recall hearing
that XP was over 50% of the machines and that Windows machines as a whole
accounts for over 90%. All this from a company that didn't believe the
internet would become anything initially. 

So now they are focusing on security and working to fix it yet people such
as yourself are still saying after that history lesson and the obvious facts
sitting in their face that there is no way MS will fix it? I guess what I am
saying is that I see that it isn't ok for MS to think in stupid ways and
they need to be chewed out for it, but fits you and the others with this
attitude ok. 



Georgi Guninski has posted one of the most honest posts I have seen on here
in ages... He outright admits he just hates MS and that they can do no good,
irregardless. You should post the same thing because from your writing, that
is your opinion.

I honestly don't understand the fanaticism of folks like yourself who have
such religious fervor over Operating Systems or possibly simply fervor
against MS. It is just a tool. I have been known to run various flavors of
UNIX as well as Linux and BSDs and RSTS/E and RSX and VMS and others in
addition to Windows and DOS. Why, because they are all tools, you use the
one that makes the most sense at the time. 



> Microsoft has been says for years that they 
> are improving security ...

> but yet you still get screwed on monthly 
> bases with worms and DOS attacks

I have responded to this before, if you actually care to see an answer, go
look. Hint: You can't just simply drop source code that runs a vast majority
of the world's computers. Even if you did, how fast would people adopt?
Linux/BSD hasn't proven very successful in that regard and it is free. What
is the Linux timeline, I think they have been around since what early 90's
or so and sort of based off Unix which has been around since what the 70's?
Windows 95 and Linux should have been fighting side by side. They still seem
to be but with Linux installations being a rounding error of Windows
installations.



> I still think it will be a piece of crap like everything else

Don't dwell on how bad one is, simply choose another and go off and be happy
with it. Oh wait, the incredibly evil MS doesn't allow you to select other
browsers to use, or other office products to use, or other Operating Systems
to use, etc.... What I am trying to say here is, if you don't like it, go
use something else and move on. Why do you feel you have to go around
whining? It is almost as if you are trying to justify your decision. When
you break up with a g/f (or b/f?) do you go around telling everyone how
horrible that person is or do you just go find someone else. If the former,
you have deeper issues. If the later, apply that your OS choice and be done
with it, I think you may be happier.




My final thoughts on this to all folks who think MS is the evil empire and
that Linux/BSD is the source of all good and that Windows simply sucks and
can not be made good... First off, it is just computer software.... Second
off, No company that sells a product for real money can win against a
product that is free unless the product being sold offers some sort of value
that doesn't exist in the free one. Additionally, if MS is so bad, why do so
many people want to get a hold of the source code? Recall, MS is evil and
Windows sucks and should be completely rewritten. Rewrite it, you shouldn't
need the source code especially since you don't want all that crappy code. I
guess you could fool yourself into thinking that you are the one and only
person who could find all the issues and correct them and MS and Windows
would be fine after that. If that is the case, go get a job working for
them, you would be very wealthy in short order if that is indeed the case
and not only that, you will have fixed the worst OS in the history of man.

In the end if Windows sucked as much as so many religious fanatics tried to
say and Linux and BSD blew its doors off so handily, this wouldn't even be a
discussion, even if MS gave away all of their stuff, they would still lose.
I personally think MS has lots of problems but I also think they are likely
to fix them and have a strong and truly secure product. I think in a vast
majority of large corporate customers, Windows fits in far more places
currently than anything else - be it mainframe, a real UNIX, or Linux/BSD.
That opinion may change but it is a ways off if so. The nice thing is my
mind is open to all of these different things so my tool set is a bit wider
than those who have decided they don't need a hammer in theirs because it is
evil and sucks so bad. 

Personally I feel Windows being open source to everyone and allowing anyone
to compile whatever they wanted into it would be about the worst thing for
the computer industry that could happen. It would bring the confusion and
chaos that exists in the Linux environment straight to the most popular
computing environment in the world and we don't really need that level of
confusion. In the meanwhile though, I like Linux and BSD in the niches that
they fit in with very carefully controlled source code. I think they can do
a great job there.



  joe

 

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
[mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gale
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:20 PM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] M$ Getting Better?


Open minded ??? 

It is kind of like the country song:

"... if you break my heart shame on you, if you break my heart a second time
shame on me.."

Microsoft has been says for years that they are improving security ...
but yet you still get screwed on monthly bases with worms and DOS attacks
that bring your company IIS server and all the desktops.

(Thank god we use Apache servers)

Just because M$ says their making a AV doesn't mean a thing ... sure I have
a open mind.. I believe they will make a AV .... but I still think it will
be a piece of crap like everything else.

Oh ... except M$ Office ... that is the only good thing I believe they have
made.

Michael

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