Message-ID: <0E565C4C9391DE4D856F725294E8730D028B6466@MI8NYCMAIL04.Mi8.com>
From: pwicks at oxygen.com (James Patterson Wicks)
Subject: lame bitching about xpsp2

-- "In all fairness,  "I am good with windows" means "I know where to 
-- click", nothing more and shows how the typical M$ user is scared as
hell 
-- of having ever one day to learn Unix, go through RFCs ( what for ? M$

-- don't even read em themselves ), and use the command line. ( Not DOS,
a 
-- proper unix shell ). Why is that ? Well its similar at people who
refuse 
-- somit in block before having tried it, its just plain stupidity and 
-- their ego gets hurts thinking they might have to start from zero."


The business world cannot afford to "start from zero" and retrain tens
of millions of workers who use Windows desktops every day.  The business
world needs secretaries to manage calendars and write memos, not learn
command line syntax.  The business world needs lawyers who can sit down
and knock out a brief in Word in a few minutes, not someone who needs to
learn a bunch of keyboard shortcuts in a command-line text editor.  Time
is money, and it cost too much money to re-train a world of Windows
users.

The cost to send one of our lower-level sales associates to a one-week
Unix class is between $2300 and $2500.  Add to that the man hours that
you lose when the person is out for a week (40 hrs * $15/hr = $600).
That's around $3000 for one class.  Who can learn command-line in one
week?  Let's say that it takes two classes for the sales associate to
become proficient enough to run *nix from the command line.  That's
around $6,000 to learn a new OS.  Even if you went the freebie route and
installed all open-source OS and applications, what about the cost to
have someone come in and install them?  Then you have the cost to train
the sales associate on the new applications (another weeklong course for
$2000 + and salary).  Then you have data migration costs.  I
conservative estimate would set the cost to move ONE employee from
Windows to *nix would be around $10k.  Multiply that by the number of
employees (with adjustments for salary) and a company of 300 and you are
talking over $3 million to move USERS to *nix.  This number does not
even address the cost of data migration, retraining administrators and
changing to *nix on the servers.  This number also does not calculate
soft costs like loss of productivity during the migration, but you
should get the point.  Unless you are starting up a business now, going
with *nix can be incredibly cost prohibitive.  It's not about
"stupidity" or someone getting their ego hurt, it's about the cost of
doing business and remaining competitive.

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
[mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com] On Behalf Of devis
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2004 8:51 AM
To: Full-disclosure
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] lame bitching about xpsp2

It seems hard to beleive how people are tolerant and easy to forgive M$ 
for doing such mistake along their product release. How do you a tag a 
product 'professionnal' when it gets owned by 41 kb of malware code ? 
Not throwing the stone, but M$ has never been careful about security, 
and often been blamed, rightfully, for the high numbers of clones / 
owned machines are there, that disrupt the internet with malicious
traffic.

 But somehow, people seems to turn a blind eye to the past, and actually

pat Microsoft in the back for SP2. Short term memory ? Or is it really 
your ego that gets upset if you had to remove these winbox ?
Using M$ systems, they always managed to boost your ego, being an 
'administrator' and having 'all that  power' at the click of your mouse.

In all fairness,  "I am good with windows" means "I know where to 
click", nothing more and shows how the typical M$ user is scared as hell

of having ever one day to learn Unix, go through RFCs ( what for ? M$ 
don't even read em themselves ), and use the command line. ( Not DOS, a 
proper unix shell ). Why is that ? Well its similar at people who refuse

somit in block before having tried it, its just plain stupidity and 
their ego gets hurts thinking they might have to start from zero.

Tough, but after MacOS, i am pretty sure even M$ will use Unix as a base

in future windows versions, maybe without never saying admitting it, as 
they did so many times before. Longhorn boast "msh", the M$ shell. ( sh 
geez thats original ).

The goal of M$ is to archieve total control of information, and they 
already succeed, mainly due to fools that defend their business model, 
not having a clue what the rest is, and worse turning a blind eye to it,

feeling safe in their 'clicking knowledge' comfort. M$ business model is

a threat to our freedom, and i would like our childrens to have a 
choice, and not be formated the M$ way.

There is no patting, accolade nor felicitations to give to M$ for sp2. 
Its 6 years late, and has scared many consumer pc users, and has turned 
the internet in a giant malware collection. And i should thank em for 
sp2 ? No WAY. I am still getting nimda probes .....

Wake UP before its too LATE.
My 2 cents.

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