Message-ID: <1094164640.527.75.camel@localhost>
From: frank at knobbe.us (Frank Knobbe)
Subject: Security & Obscurity: physical-world
	analogies

On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 11:24, Peter Swire wrote:
> 	I think there is a strong analytic similarity between a firewall
> and physical settings where guards are deciding whether to let
> people/trucks/etc. through a gate.
> [...]
> 	In both cases, there is "filtering" by the defenders.  Some
> entrants are excluded.  Some get more intensive screening.  The level of
> filtering varies with the perceived level of the threat.


I was trying to stay out of this discussion, but I do have to throw in
some comments. I do not believe that we can make accurate and meaningful
analogies between the physical realm and the information technology
realm or cyber space or whatever you want to call it.

The analogies we to make "appear" to serve our purpose for making it
easier to understand the difficult issues surrounding IT based
scenarios, but in fact are presented solely for one situation. Any
modification of the situation, and reaction scenarios, break down
quickly because they can not be performed in both worlds with the same
results and same action-reaction behavior.

Case in point: You say firewalls are like entrances. People (on lieu of
packets) are inspected and gain entrance or not. For a single
person/packet, this works. While in the physical the person can not
circumvent the entrance, in the information world this is quite easily
achieved. In cyber space, the person-packet would just clone or copy
itself a million times, overwhelming the inspectors and slip passed the
checkpoint.

To really illustrate the point, let me make a more colorful example.
People-packets in the real world can be stopped by a moat around the
castle. The people-packet runs towards the castle and falls into the
moat. People-packet has ceased to exist. In cyber space, the
people-packet will again clone itself and run "purposefully" into the
moat, piling up the "dead" people-packets until the moat is full. The
remaining people-packets can then enter the castle.

Feel free to play through the same scenario with a wall where "dead"
people-packets get purposefully deployed in front of the wall until the
last people-packet can climb the packet mountain and pass over the wall.


There are some that say certain aspects don't work in the real world...
these people think in terms of the real world. There are other people
that say other aspects don't work that way in cyber space. That's
because they think through the scenario with information technology as
the background. There will be people in each camp that see certain
aspects as useful, but each will again view it from their own
perspective.

Analogies between the "worlds" work when we want them to work. The same
analogies can be shot down if we don't like them. These analogies do no
allow us to represent one world when trying to make a point in another.

The copy conundrum: You have a chair. Dave wants to steal your chair. If
he does, you know your chair has been stolen. In cyber space, Dave can
steal your chair by making a copy. You still have your chair and you do
not know if it was stolen or not. Dave does have your chair now, but you
don't know.

Leftovers: Let's say you burned said chair. Let's say Dave told you that
he came to your house, made a copy of your chair, drove home and put the
copy into his living room. In the real world you might go to Dave's
house and remove/destroy your chair. In the IT world you will find that
said chair is not only present in Dave's living room, but there is an
inadvertent copy left in his car. Oh, and also on his hands, or any
other place that the chair passed through.

Physical objects can not be compared to information. Try to imaging a
computer programs in the real world. It doesn't work. Information and
ideas, communication and packets, security vulnerabilities, attacks and
security countermeasures can not be quickly substituted with real world
physical objects. Henceforth any attempt to place analogies of scenarios
from one world into the other is flawed. 


Regards,
Frank


PS: When I flew over your paper, I read a lot about security and secrecy
of information. What I did miss was the distribution of misinformation.
And no, it does not easily compare to obscurity. While obscurity does
not improve security, it does add value along with security. .... in the
physical as well as information technology world.
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