full-disclosure - Empirical data surrounding guards and firewalls.

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Message-ID: <001f01c49154$7d0386c0$fc09a8c0@PC1221>
From: mnv at alumni.princeton.edu (MN Vasquez)
Subject: Empirical data surrounding guards and firewalls.

Hrm.  I think if enough people wearing only shirts and shoes ran into
mcdonald's, at least some of the would get in, and not be blocked by the
rule.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Tucker" <jftucker@...il.com>
To: <evol@...ner.halo.nu>
Cc: <full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Empirical data surrounding guards and
firewalls.


> Apologies, please explain the lack of differences, I'm not getting them.
>
> Virtual:
> "The door" - Port 80 - Closed after connection attempt. You come back,
> it does the same, and then closes again. 404 Error not being
> dissimilar to being told to get out.
>
> Real:
> Cops show up - As with the firewall, it does not actively stop you
> from reconnecting. McDonalds staff did not prevent you from
> re-entering the premesis themselves.
>
> Measures in Both:
> In the event of reconnection attempts the firewall logs would indicate
> an attack and external policing would have to deal with the problem.
>
> As far as I can see it the only difference is scaling, you can make
> many many millions of requests before a flood warning appears, whereas
> you only need to refuse to leave a few times before the police are
> called. I guess humans have less patience than computers.
>
> Of course I could be missing something?
>
> Oh yeah, I did miss something, you can't "disconnect" someone from
> being present in the building, as you can with a socket on a server.
> But with reconnection scaling, is that really relevant? A little,
> moreso in some circumstances, but not in this one.
>
> Why complain about anologies when your response contains anaolgies
> such as this one.
>
> Did you really go into McDonalds and harrass the staff today and get
> taken away by the police? Please say yes, that would make my day. ROFL
> :)
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:45:56 -0500 (CDT), evol@...ner.halo.nu
> <evol@...ner.halo.nu> wrote:
> > Target:
> > ------
> >         -Firewall
> >         -McDonald's guard
> >
> > Materials:
> > ---------
> >         -(1) Evol
> >         -(1) Shoes
> >         -(1) Shirt
> >         -(1) Computer
> >         -(1) Internet connection
> >         -(1) Firewalled host
> >
> > Procedure:
> > ---------
> > For each target, undergo the following steps:
> >
> >         1.) Enumerate an acceptable entrance policy.
> >         2.) Attempt to enter while following entrance policy.
> >
> > Data:
> > -----
> >         Firewall:
> >         --------
> >                 The firewall at internet host www.mcdonalds.com accepts
> >                 connections to TCP/IP port 80.  Rules are similar to
'DENY
> >                 ALL EXCEPT TCP PORT 80'  So make connection to port 80
and
> >                 note results.
> >         Results:
> >         -------
> >                 Normal transaction was accepted.  See results:
> >
> >                 HTTP/1.1 400 Bad request
> >                 Server: Netscape-Enterprise/4.1
> >                 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 XX:XX:XX GMT
> >                 Content-length: 147
> >                 Content-type: text/html
> >                 Connection: close
> >
> >         Store:
> >         -----
> >                 The store at the location closest to me was chosen as a
> >                 specific target.  The entrance policy is:
> >                 'IF (NOT SHOES) OR (NOT SHIRT) DENY'
> >                 So, evol enters store with only shoes and a shirt.
> >
> >         Data:
> >         ----
> >                 Evol was rejected conduction of normal buisness.  No
> >                 Big Mac today, get out!  Then, when Evol tries to
> >                 proceed anyway, cops take Evol out of McDonalds.
> >
> >         Conclusion:
> >         ----------
> >                 People and firewalls are different.
>
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