full-disclosure - Amazing but true Scandal: IT Security firm hires the author of Sasser worm

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Message-ID: <B99D046F7F16A34EA7926E14DD82F5A114CD68@exchny28.ny.ssmb.com>
From: jan.m.clairmont at citigroup.com (Clairmont, Jan M)
Subject: Amazing but true Scandal: IT Security firm hires the author of  Sasser worm

Though Sven could face some jail time his crime is not a big deal in Sweden.  In 
many countries there are no laws or extradition for computer fraud crimes.

Amazingly this makes it ok or legal, so you want to be a big time criminal go to
Beleize or Sweden or Isle of Jersey and id theft away.  That doesn't guarantee that
we won't find your body washed up on some carribean isle somewhere when you rip
off the wrong dudes.

But life has its risks.  The downside of phishing or any other questionable activity
is that you may get really burned, like playing in traffic at rush hour, you don't
know who you are going to offend and they may have the resources and motivation to nail
your stupid a**. What was the license of that Mac truck that just squished me.

So play with fire get burned, good luck.  You are not playing with children but with the Big boys who play for keeps.

Just a word to the wise, I play with the Big Boys and I keep it clean or you
may see my big dumb a** face down in the East River or worse working for M$$$$ oh no,
through minkey at me I'll do it.;->

Warm Regards, play fair have fun, but keep it clean.

Jan clairmont, Paladin of Insecurity.

-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com
[mailto:full-disclosure-admin@...ts.netsys.com]On Behalf Of Barry
Fitzgerald
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 2:09 PM
To: Larry Seltzer
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.netsys.com
Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Scandal: IT Security firm hires the
author of Sasser worm

Larry Seltzer wrote:

>>>He wrote a worm.  Big freaking deal.  
>>>      
>>>
>
>Yeah, very big freaking deal. He loosed an attack he had good reason to
>believe would do damage to innumerable people all over the world. He
>belongs in jail and for a long time, if only to send a message that such
>behavior is wrong. 
>
>And anyone who trusts him with their computers is an idiot.
>
>
>  
>
I'm not going to argue with the fact that he deserves jail time, but 
give me a break - there are people out there walking the streets who've 
stolen massive amounts of money and because their titles began with 
"CEO", "CIO", or "CFO" that's fine, but some guy creates a worm and 
everyone starts screaming WMD's!!oneoneone! let's hang him!"

He's a criminal, he deserves jailtime, any company that hires him 
without considering his past activities is foolish... but he's not the 
worst criminal in the history of time, in fact, he's probably not even 
in the top 99% of the worst criminals in the history of time.  Can we 
all agree that if a company wants to hire him and disclose it, yes they 
may be stupid but a) he has a right to work and b) they have a right to 
hire him?

Disagree with the people involved all you like, but anyone who disagrees 
with the above statement is relying on a reactionary perspective that 
relies on dark-age/puritanical forms of penalty and needs to step back 
and think about their world-view for a long time.

             -Barry

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