full-disclosure - Windoze almost managed to 200x repeat 9/11

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Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040925021504.036dbeb0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
From: nekramer at mindtheater.net (Nancy Kramer)
Subject: Windoze almost managed to 200x repeat
  9/11

Well Put.

Regards,

Nancy Kramer
Webmaster http://www.americandreamcars.com
Free Color Picture Ads for Collector Cars
One of the Ten Best Places To Buy or Sell a Collector Car on the Web

At 11:15 AM 9/24/2004, Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

>Frank Knobbe wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 09:15, Barry Fitzgerald wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The article doesn't make the situation entirely clear.  Did the app 
>>>intentionally restart the system and foul it?  Did the restart occur 
>>>because the app crashed?
>>>
>>
>>No, no, the problem was "human error" because a tech didn't reboot the
>>system. It's clearly operator error, not a problem with any systems at
>>all.
>>
>I disagree - if the system were engineered properly, a reboot would not be 
>necessary to keep the system from falling on it's face.
>
>The article implied (though didn't outright state it) that the Unix 
>systems did not include regular reboots.  I don't know enough about the 
>engineering of the system to state whether this was caused by the app, the 
>OS, or some dependancy issue.
>
>But, in a critical system of this nature, relying on scheduled reboots for 
>operation sends a signal to me that there's a problem in the system.
>
>>Unfortunately, there is some truth in this. We (and not just the media)
>>are starting to put blame on humans far too quickly. Is this justified?
>>On one hand, they are only tools for us to do our job. On the other
>>hand, they are products that we should be able to rely on. Who do we
>>blame? Operators or products?
>>
>>
>>
>That depends on the situation.  If a system can be engineered to operate 
>properly on it's own, then it should be.  All else is operator error.  I 
>think it most depends on the rationality of the automated requirement.
>
>If the backup fails because said user forgets to change the backup tapes, 
>then the problem is human error.
>If the backup fails because said product doesn't properly flush its 
>buffers and sends all data to /dev/null, then the issue is software error, 
>even if it's a known condition that has had procedure put in place to work 
>around it.  The argument for automation is rational and supposed to be in 
>the system, and thus it's an error in the engineering.
>
>The second scenario is similar to what we had here.  All a reboot does is 
>ensure that the memory has been cleared.  If their developers don't know 
>how to do this in code, or if they choose OS' that can't reliably do this, 
>then either fire the developers and/or the decision makers, because they 
>didn't do their jobs and people could have died because of that.
>             -Barry
>
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