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From: toddtowles at (Todd Towles)
Subject: Full-Disclosure Posts

I agree with your idea, but I am one of those uni graduate/20 something
professionals. I am very passion about my work and the security of the
company I work for. I work in a rural state and the money isn't as high
as some other places. I took a pay cut to work in the IT field when I
finished college. 

Maybe you weren't talking about people like myself in your statement
(since most people that are part of FD are here to be on the edge of
security and around people that understand them) but it seemed like you
were talking in pretty general terms....with that in mind I have to
disagree with you that all the 20 something professionals are not good
security professionals. A lot of the older folks are sitting in the
corner talking about their 1980 modems, while some 15 year old from
south amercian uses a three year old exploit on their misconfigured
Apache webserver and defaces it.

I agree that you have to love have to eat and sleep
computers/security to be good in the field and a lot of people in the IT
field aren't like that. Kinda sad, but I will have their job one just smile.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> [] On Behalf Of 
> yahoo@...alhost
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 7:58 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [Full-Disclosure] Full-Disclosure Posts
> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:13:18 -0700, Etaoin Shrdlu 
> <> wrote:
> > Of course, anyone still using the term "hax0r" as though it were 
> > meaningful might want to think further about what a "security 
> > professional" might be
> A security professional is someone who cares more about money 
> than the real issue of security at where they work. They 
> don't go the extra mile for the interests of security at 
> where they work, as they don't want to risk the job they're in.
> My view is corporations should not employ uni graduates and 
> thirty-somethings to work in a security team. They very 
> likely still can't open a can of beans and certainly have no 
> idea about the real issues which face them. They follow 
> company policy and go home at the end of the day, and switch off.
> The people who should be working at a security team should be 
> volunteers who have the real interests of the company in 
> mind, instead of money.
> The security professional as we know it (uni graduate and 30
> something) is not a hax0r, they are ph.d or whatever who are 
> skilled on an academic level, and thats as far as it goes, 
> which in my opinion isn't far enough.
> Being a security professional is ment to be about passion, 
> strictly not money, in my humble opinion.
> Stop employing academics and get the hackers in to do the job 
> properly, unpaid of course, at least to start off with, to 
> make sure they're joining the company for the right reasons. ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter:

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