Message-ID: <20050311213724.GA17279@grok.org.uk>
From: johnc at grok.org.uk (John Cartwright)
Subject: Re: Complaint to be filed at grok org uk

I apologise for bringing private mail into a public forum,
but I felt that this was indeed relevant and important for 
list members to be made aware of.

On Fri, Mar 11, 2005 at 09:40:52PM +0100, Tamas Feher wrote:
> Tit for tat mode activated.

It is a shame that you view my actions in such a negative light.
Let's review the evidence here: you started a flame war about
politics with a slightly-relevant post. After the complaints
subsided, you posted a completely-irrelevant political troll. And
apparently I do not have the right to remove such rubbish from
*my* mailing list? 

> - If you moderate, then all members must be moderated

Not true. The list charter specifically reserves the right for
me as list owner to remove troublesome members. I have yet to
do this to anyone as the moderate flag is a much more considerate
way of temporarily excluding posters who cannot abide by the rules.

The alternative is that I unsubscribe and ban you, which does
not seem to be the preferable choice in my mind as it does not
offer you the opportunity to prove me wrong in my decision.

> - If you moderate, it is not full disclosure any more and let's 
> change the list name.

Everyone is unmoderated until they prove that they cannot be trusted. 
Len and I have operated the list in this way since it was started.
Several well-known list members have been treated in this way, and
most of them have reformed following a brief stint of moderation.

As a goodwill gesture, I removed all moderation bits from the list
when it was migrated, you are the first person to abuse my trust
since that event. Let's be very clear, at most there were maybe
20 people on that list of folks who cannot be trusted.

This is Full-Disclosure. Of security issues, not some political 
rubbish that I and others could not care less about. That is why
there is a charter. Please don't assume that the lack of general
moderation allows you to ignore it.

> - I give you one week to implement antivirus filtering on FD. After 
> that I will check if I can put you and FD in legal trouble, because 
> your list regularly distributes computer viruses by neglecting to 
> stop infected mails. You consistently refuse to apply antivirus 
> filtering to FD postings and the FD archive has become a big virus 
> repository (essentially a virus exchange site). When ClamAV is 
> available for totally free, you have no excuse to omit AV filtering. 
> I have complained about it previously and other people have 
> complained about it numerous time and you don't care a damn. BTW, the 
> new FD site is in Britain's domain and european virus laws are more 
> serious. Few months ago a a virus writer got a suspended prison term 
> here in Hungary. He was lucky to be a juvenile at the time of crime.

Well, you pre-empted my announcement but I have had antivirus working
for several days now, and have rejected a large number of virii from
joe-jobbed member addresses. For your information, I do not have an
automatic discard in place and so any false positives will be dealt
with manually without inconvenience to the poster. And please don't
be so juvenile as to resort to baseless threats. I'm sorry if the
resource that I supply to the community for free at great personal
cost isn't up to your expectations, perhaps you would like to just
read Bugtraq in future.

> - If you keep moderating in a cherrypick way, I will try to convince 
> Grok to abandon FD hosting or force you to change FD's name. It will 
> be bad if you have to move the list every week.

You are talking to grok.org.uk now. Try to convince me to drop my
own mailing list from my own domain because you broke my rules.

> -I guess you are a reality-blind republican and you want to moderate 
> me because I told the list how Dubya and the US republicans cheated 
> with the computerized voting machines which were manufactured by 
> devout republican capitalists.

Which part of "I have absolutely no interest in your political views,
or anyone else's" don't you understand? I couldn't care less. You are
moderated because you posted about Saddam's capture being faked - 
it is completely and utterly irrelevant to Full-Disclosure and what 
it stands for.

> I reserve the right to contact privately the press and/or as many FD 
> members as I like.
> 
> Regards, Tamas Feher.

I'm sure list members will enjoy unsolicited complaints about your
inability to follow simple rules and the consequences that affect you.

I suggest you re-read the charter, post on-topic messages, and prove
to me that you can be a responsible member of this list. I am not
trying to persecute you, just to make you see that I am not going to
tolerate repeated off-topic posts. Stop posting irrelevant messages,
and you will find the moderation flag being turned off soon. I have
already approved one post from you, which is encouraging.

Cheers
- John

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