Message-ID: <122827b90512281200i2129da43t208855feefea3be7@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed Dec 28 20:01:02 2005
From: stan.bubrouski at gmail.com (Stan Bubrouski)
Subject: Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove

Last time I checked there won't be presidential elections until
2008... its up to Congress to impeach the president for his crimes
against his citizens and humanity (think Geneva Convention) and they
won't do it cause it would hurt the entire republican party's chances
of winning the next election.

-sb

On 12/28/05, Leif Ericksen <leife@....net> wrote:
> I never said it was OK that they are doing what they are doing.  I just
> said that they are doing it.  crying about it is not going to fix it.
> Action will fix it and the action that needs to be taken is to become of
> the leaders that allows these laws to come about, or does not allow them
> to come about.
>
> Bottom line with the direction that the world is going it is inevitable
> that they are going to do it.  Bottom line most people do have stuff
> that they do that they do not want found out.  NOBODY is perfectly
> honest.  So there has to be something that all us want to hide. or in
> the least maintain as private and have some sort of assurance that it is
> not being snooped.
>
> I am taking the snooping as being part of life.  Also we can not
> consider once we toss a packet out in the wild of the internet use of a
> cell phone or regular phone for it to remain private (it is on a public
> net work right?) therefore, we are screwed boned, what ever you may
> choose. Now, if you established a PRIVATE network you pay for all the
> upkeep from point a to point b and it gets scanned then that is a huge
> intrusion.  I would demand a that I see some papers if they were to come
> to my home.  But traffic on the net at large I anticipate can and will
> be intercepted by 1 or more parties.  I just hope that as I do my
> encrypted channels on various locations that I am secure.  But to demand
> it is fool hardy you will never get it.
>
> If it is not the government spying on your traffic it could be the
> |-|4(|<3r5 doing it for you.
>
> You you go walking into the jungle of Africa or take a walk through the
> swamps (how do you spell it....  Oakiefanokie) and demand that the Lions
> or the gators not bite you?  With the way some people are acting I am
> betting that is the case...
>
> Since we have more people computer literate now than we did back in
> 1987/88 it is becoming more apparent that we are being monitored and
> spoke about in greater detail.
>
> Now, with that in mind how many people out there work for a company that
> in is Computer/Internet usage policy states we reserve the right to
> monitor your traffic, or computer usage?  How many people have read the
> warning banners that their own company has?  So you will bitch and
> grouse that the government may monitor you but shucks to hell I will log
> on to my E-Bank from the office and not care because they will not
> intercept my traffic, and they do not have any key loggers on my system
> to see what I am doing.  Oh besides, the E-bank is encrypted so they can
> not see what I am doing since, I do not have any key loggers on my
> system at work.
>
> I know my company has a net usage policy and they reserver the right to
> monitor your use of their systems.
>
> --
> Leif
>
> On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 17:01 +0100, GroundZero Security wrote:
> > >Well the harder we try to hide our data from the government the more
> > >they are going to think that you are an entity that needs to be taken
> > >down as a threat to the government be the government US, UK, Sweden,
> > >Norway, China, Japan, N/S Korea, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India, Africa.
> > >and down under.  Yes, I missed just a few I am to lazy to list all of
> > >them.
> >
> > ok so you think its ok for any government on this planet to record all your data
> > and process it on their systems. now go to google and see how many governement
> > systems get compromised. if every nation spy's on you and saves the data, there is
> > a higher chance that this data could be stolen. now dont tell me that those systems
> > will be secured and junk as there is no such thing as a 100% secure system.
> > i guess you'd be one of the first to complain about that ? or let me ask you,
> > are you only ok with that your own government saves your data, or do you also
> > have no problem if any other nation logs and profiles you ?
> >
> > i would so love to see some foreign spy agency getting busted by usa that they have
> > been spying  on u.s. people and then i would like to hear your comments aswell,
> > or even better, the scenario i just said about compromised hosts of spy agencys.
> > what if criminal organisations get the data ? they could blackmail you as they know about
> > the girl you use to cheat on your wife, they got pictures of your kids and they know
> > which dirty websites you visited. i mean this is just an example, but its not unlikely.
> > so you see why its not a thing of having nothing to hide, but simply saving his own privacy.
> >
> > another thing is, just by hiding your private data it means you are a threat ?!
> > what about a real life situation then, it would be the same if some agency sends
> > agents to your house once in a while at night just to check that you dont hide anything.
> > thats freedom for you ? isnt in americas law that every person has the right for privacy ?
> >
> > even if you have nothing to hide, you still should get your privacy, or do you want to
> > feel beeing watched all the time whatever you do ? i dont know, but i wouldnt feel free if
> > i knew any nation on the world (so hundreds of people) profile me and watch what i do even
> > though i'm not a criminal. they dont have to see the pictures my friends send me or read
> > all my emails to business partners where i signed a NDA and could get sue'd if information
> > leaks.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Leif Ericksen" <leife@....net>
> > To: "Rodrigo Barbosa" <rodrigob@...spammers.org>
> > Cc: <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
> >
> >
> > > As was stated in previous post Echelon is old news, even Carnivore was
> > > supposedly dumped for newer technology.  As I stated in a previous
> > > example the government can come in and request the keys if they need it.
> > > If that story that my prof told the class in 1988 was true.  Now that
> > > story supposedly took place a few years before that class. so lets say
> > > that happened in 1982-198 is my best guess.
> > >
> > > The key is monitoring is being done.  AS for the encryption. there are
> > > some that would argue that any STRONG encryption that is allowed to
> > > exist in the US ( PGP and the likes) has been modified by the NSA so
> > > that they have a generic key that will open any door.  Otherwise the
> > > creator of such encryption will disappear and never comeback.  IS this
> > > true or is this just a silly story.  I do not know I have not invented
> > > an encryption system.  I will let you know when I do if I am forced by
> > > the government to give a cracking method.  ;)
> > >
> > > If the stories of the government having a back door key are true then I
> > > would be willing to bet that any technologically advance country would
> > > subscribe to the same plan to protect their own interests.
> > >
> > > Another thing to think about is just how many PRIMARY traffic points do
> > > we have that a majority of the traffic goes through. Lets see in the US
> > > we have MEA_EAT, MAE-WEST, MAE-CENTRAL, as well as others.
> > > (what were the locations... Hendron, VA, Chicago, IL, LA, CA, Dalas, or
> > > was it Huston TX. was there not near Central Florida?)
> > >
> > > Lets look at the UFO thought here for a moment.  The governments deny
> > > that they exist so people really think and believe that they do exist.
> > > So much so that some are willing to put their lives at risk to break
> > > through the Govs defenses to prove that they know Aliens do exist.
> > > Well the harder we try to hide our data from the government the more
> > > they are going to think that you are an entity that needs to be taken
> > > down as a threat to the government be the government US, UK, Sweden,
> > > Norway, China, Japan, N/S Korea, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India, Africa.
> > > and down under.  Yes, I missed just a few I am to lazy to list all of
> > > them.
> > >
> > > Now making complaints and noise about the problem is not going to do
> > > anything abut it.  IF you know the problem exists and you have an answer
> > > start fighting in it a good way.  Run for office on a platform to stop
> > > government spying.  If it is a national platform in the US I am willing
> > > to give you my vote.  I hope you will give me yours..  All the emails
> > > they can not do that is just noise white noise at that.  Until you start
> > > running for an office or even write your congress folks letting them
> > > know how pissed off you are and that they are not going to get your vote
> > > they do not care.
> > >
> > > What I want to know is how do I start running for office in the US?  I
> > > would not mind becoming part of the government so that I could help form
> > > a new direction that is less invasive to the peoples privacy.  I am not
> > > a Yale, or Harvard grad I do not belong to Skull and bones, or the
> > > Masons, or the Lions, or even the Illuminati so how do I get in on a
> > > national ticket?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Leif Ericksen
> > > PS... This may seem contrary to some of my older posts...  But I am
> > > putting more into it now.  Rather than just stop crying foul since
> > > nobody asked what should I do..  They said I missed the point but in
> > > reality they missed the point.  They point is there is nothing that can
> > > be done by crying about it.  It takes action, and using encryption will
> > > not do it if you are of the school that believes the government(s) have
> > > a back door key.  Action is required but crying about it is going to do
> > > nothing again it is white noise.  Become A Klaxon, and write to your
> > > government officials with a strong voice, or try to become one of the
> > > government officials.  for those of us in the US at least at present if
> > > we disagree with our elected leaders we can not be shot, but I am sure
> > > that day is coming if we stay on our current glide path.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2005-12-27 at 03:04 -0200, Rodrigo Barbosa wrote:
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > > Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 10:11:45PM -0600, Leif Ericksen wrote:
> > > > > Really if we have nothing to hide we should not fear them listening to
> > > > > us.  Now if they come in and start forcing a special mark or code word
> > > > > or something special in order to live or buy or sell anything then it is
> > > > > time to revolt.
> > > >
> > > > Now, that is an interesting view of someone who really is not paying
> > > > attention.
> > > >
> > > > What would you qualify as "something to hide" ? How about my banking
> > > > account data ? How about the trade secrets of my company ?
> > > >
> > > > Well, how can I be sure they are not giving or selling this data to
> > > > someone else, maybe one of the corporations that are financing political
> > > > campains ?
> > > >
> > > > Would you mind of other governments started listening to your conversation ?
> > > > What about other governments listening to conversations from USA
> > > > corporations ?
> > > >
> > > > Just because people has something to hide that doesn't mean they are
> > > > terrorists, doesn't mean they are a threat to the USA, and doesn't
> > > > mean some half-brain USA President can authorize their comunications
> > > > monitored.
> > > >
> > > > - --
> > > > Rodrigo Barbosa <rodrigob@...spammers.org>
> > > > "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur"
> > > > "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns)
> > > >
> > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> > > >
> > > > iD8DBQFDsMtQpdyWzQ5b5ckRAglaAKCV4zfib1mXOzgxGMwJAPrVFWZmBgCePrMf
> > > > Il5VDyGO2/D9B1qKqgYeXcc=
> > > > =LpVf
> > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > > --
> > > Leif Ericksen <leife@....net>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> > >
> --
> Leif Ericksen <leife@....net>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

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