Message-ID: <C6AF3ECACA6E9A46A2CB2FABCDCB35C404DE1B7B@swilnts810.wil.fusa.com>
Date: Thu Jan  5 19:11:28 2006
From: Glenn.Everhart at chase.com (Glenn.Everhart@...se.com)
Subject: Stop aiding an industry that just hurts humanity

Education is the opposite of oppression?

up to a point. Remember though the business about "power grows out
of the barrel of a gun"? There have been well educated slaves for
thousands of years. Unfortunately technical developments are making it
possible for holders of power to control people in ways not imaginable
earlier. Consider the use of MRI to scan brains and find when people are
telling truth or not. Now consider what it means to be examined about
whether you've done anything or thought anything against the Regime, when
said Regime cannot be lied to then. The polygraph was bad enough as an
invader of privacy; this is worse. 

Recent history wrt the USSR may show that regimes that survive by misrepresenting
history are metastable, but it also shows that such metastability can be
rather long lasting. The USSR version lasted 70 years (and considerable traces
were inherited by successor states). The Chinese version has not disintegrated
yet (owing partly to a lesser concentration on upholding false orthodoxy and
more concentration on maintaining control).

These kinds of issues are not (evidently) widely understood. People say
"well, of course if someone knows something that could prevent another 9/11
attack I see no problem using MRI to find out". They do not seem to think
"Do I want to live in a world where whoever is in power can force anyone,
anywhere, to reveal any of their thoughts at any time for reasons those in
power want?" They think in terms of tapping phones of foreign terrorists. They
don't think in terms of tapping EVERY phone in the country (as I gather is
being done) as a prequel to picking out those which might belong to "foreign
terrorists". 

People of honorable intentions who have to do police work think in terms of
making their detection job function. However, it is the control freaks who get
into power who turn those powers to extinguish liberty. The US Constitution (and
to a degree Magna Charta, though it was too long ago for the focus to be clear) were
not written to make the country easy to police. There were very good reasons for
this that need to be recalled.  (I might argue that it is clear in the US in
Amendment 2 that the constitution was in a sense a suicide pact, not for the people
but for the government. The history makes it pretty clear the intent was that the
government was not supposed to control most of the firepower...)



-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk
[mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk]On Behalf Of Dean
Pierce
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:23 PM
To: Andrew A; full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Stop aiding an industry that just hurts
humanity


Sorry, but the way I see it, the opposite of oppression is education :-)

The idea of keeping information from the public as a method of making
the world a more free place is self-contradictory.

   - DEAN

Andrew A wrote:
> "In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security. They wanted a
> comfortable life, and they lost it all ? security, comfort, and freedom.
> When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society
> to give to them, when the freedom they wished for most was freedom from
> responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free and was never free again."
> ?Edward Gibbon
> 
> We stand at the cusp of a renaissance. A freely communicating humanity
> is closer to unity and harmony than ever before. Never before have ideas
> and knowledge traveled so rapidly. If not for the Internet, little would
> be known about the atrocities our government attempts to commit in
> secret. All the American people would be able to read is the party line
> off of cable television. With a morally bankrupt media, the Internet is
> the key to any sort of democratic resistance. Thanks to the Internet, we
> may view photos of wounded Iraqis and internal government memos. The
> priveledge of viewing and knowing these things is easily lost.
> 
> We approach the final hour of the free Internet. As I write, forces
> within our society are beginning to impose control and restriction onto
> it. If these forces are not turned back, I know that within a decade
> that the free world's Internet will be a mix of cable television and the
> supressed Chinese Internet. As a beggar, I present myself with the
> humility that my lowly position deserves. My plea is simple: stop
> publishing your vulnerabilities. We will need them.
> 
> I want my children and their children to have access to truth. Not just
> my truth, or my government's truth, but all the other truths in the
> world as well.
> 
> I want us to be able to communicate easily and safely about the actions
> of our government.
> 
> I want the merits of the Internet to progress in form and finesse until
> we are ready to cast the criminals, thugs, and mammonites out power all
> over the world.
> 
> A secure Internet is an Internet without freedom, without privacy, and
> without anonymity. The nature of security is control. Were we to be
> governed by the just, I would worry little about this situation. Sadly,
> the political systems of the first world have been perverted by an evil
> which ensures that none who do not share its nature hold office.
> 
> Submitting yourself to a secure system requires that we have a
> reasonable amount of trust for the system's keepers. Does your current
> government have the ideal qualities needed to control the flow of
> information? We should be keeping everything which may allow us to
> circumvent the system guarded closely. The subversion of trusted
> resources will eventually be the only way to keep forbidden information
> in mass circulation and the primary means of resistance against tyranny.
> 
> "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
> greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in
> peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the
> hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may
> posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ?Samuel Adams
> 
> If you place any value on freedom, then stop working for the oligarchy
> and start working against it. I'll admit, subversion does not pay well.
> It isn't quite as cushy as the six figure job I passed up, but it has a
> great benefit: I can sleep at night. I'm not aiding a set of
> corporations and a government which used unethical means to corner vast
> amounts of wealth and proceeded to flagrantly abuse their power. The
> reward for doing what is right is better than any earthly reward that I
> could receive.
> 
> "He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps
> to perpetuate it." ?Martin Luther King, Jr.
> 
> To the employees of the biggest security firms of the world, all
> American, I want you to stop and look at the government of your country.
> You have an administration which has gone and invaded countries on a
> whim, which authorizes torture that is conducted in secret, which has
> less transparency than any government in recent memory, that places
> extreme emphasis on executive power... the countless historical
> comparisons that could apply here are obvious so I need not make them.
> This administration is a perfect example of the type of systemic
> corruption that is inevitable due to the very nature of power, of
> control, and yes, of security. People like this will soon be deciding
> the fate of the Internet.
> 
> When engaging in reasonable political discourse is not allowed you are
> going to be wanting to take your freedom back.
> 
> It is time for the last stand. Our mission is to retain the right to
> freely think, code, and communicate. Stop helping the industry, stop
> publishing your 0day, start working to make a real difference. Save your
> arms for the time very soon in which we will need them. Have faith in
> your self and your God and good works will come. We need not be slaves
> to a master that despises us!
> 
> Non-disclosure is a heroic endeavor. Be a hero.
> 
> Government control gives rise to fraud, suppression of Truth,
> intensification of the black market and artificial scarcity. Above all,
> it unmans the people and deprives them of initiative, it undoes the
> teaching of self-help... ?Gandhi
> 
> -
> Bantown is unprecedented as the first catalyst of the revolution to a
> have a tollfree customer feedback number. Questions? Comments? Call us
> at 888-LOL-WHAT. Chat us up at irc.rizon.net <http://irc.rizon.net>
> #bantown.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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