full-disclosure - Re: defining 0day

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Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0709251552220.25733@linuxbox.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:57:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Gadi Evron <ge@...uxbox.org>
To: Charles Miller <cmiller@...tiche.org>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, bugtraq@...urityfocus.com
Subject: Re: defining 0day

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007, Charles Miller wrote:
> On 26/09/2007, at 5:02 AM, Gadi Evron wrote:
>
>> Okay. I think we exhausted the different views, and maybe we are now able 
>> to come to a conlusion on what we WANT 0day to mean.
>> 
>> What do you, as professional, believe 0day should mean, regardless of 
>> previous definitions?
>
> As a professional, I would be happy to see terms like '0day' banished from 
> the lexicon entirely. It's an essentially meaningless -- all third-party 
> exploits are zero-day to _somebody_ -- term of boast co-opted from the warez 
> scene, and we can do perfectly well without it.
>
> Quibbling over its precise definition seems a ridiculous waste of bytes.
>

It would if we are to stay stuck in our niche, but you need to remember - 
security is about niches, we are all experts -- but in very specific 
fields.

These past 2 years we faced multiple targeted attacks with previously 
unknown vulnerabilities. We experience MASSIVE exploitation of users with 
0days used on web sites and ine mail, etc.

As an industry, as professionals, it is time to get our act together on 
the basics.

I am operations manager for ZERT, and for me, this is indeed at the very 
heart of the matter. How you define this silliness is directly linked to 
how you do two of the most essential parts of security:

1. Vulnerability disclosure - for researchers.

2. Incident response - for.. responders.

If a vulnerabiliy is fully disclosed, unpatched, being actively exploited, 
etc. caused real confusion, and non of us, or any of the written material, 
can agree on the basics.

It's not about fighting on what 0day means as much as it is about how we 
as an industry, a community, conduct ourselves and can reach a common 
language, which directly impacts operations.

So, if WMF was disclosed today after being actively exploited itw for a 
while, what would you call it? How would you respond to it? How long would 
it stay unpatched and when will you realize its importance?

> C

 	Gadi.

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