Message-ID: <4739B000.4010608@observed.de>
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:09:04 +0900
From: Paul Sebastian Ziegler <psz@...erved.de>
To: rakesh@...man.in
Cc: 'full-disclosure' <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>,
	bugtraq@...urityfocus.com
Subject: Re: Standing Up Against German Laws - Project
	HayNeedle

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Rakesh,

even though I do not share your opinion, I still respect it and thank
you for telling me about it. People having different opinions is what
makes life interesting.

To answer your question:
Gemany (at least east Germany) has a history of data retention that got
out of hand immensely. This is one of the reasons why there are several
rights that were supposed to never let something like it happen again.
Among those is the right of informational self-determination.

I know that you will probably tell me that as long as they don't collect
the data itself, this right is still untouched. That is a valid opinion.
I just don't share it. Tracking the phone connections (and to emphasize
this once more: HayNeedle doesn't do anything against that) along with
the locations allows the government to trace almost every single
inhabitant over time. If your IP is linked to your persona and
anonymizers are taken out of business, then you can not access
information anonymously anymore.

There have been several laws during the past few months that have taken
more and more rights away. And I simply don't think this is a good thing.

I completely agree with you that Germany is presently a fine democracy.
And I would like it to stay this way. Even if I would trust our current
government's competence and goals, I still don't think they should have
the 'capability' of turning oppressive. I don't think any government
should have that, since no one knows who will be in power next.
This is my opinion, which is of course, also questionable and by no
means perfect.

Germany has never been a country of friendly distance among people of
opposite opinions. Most people favor to express their thoughts directly
and aggressively. So what I do might seem a little harsh. But I don't
think it is. I wouldn't want the world to be ruled by people like me. It
would probably end disastrous. There need to be people to push the
surveillance factor. And there need to be people to stand up against it.
Either extreme is not good. But we can only reach an appropriate
solution, if both sides show up and actually do something.

I don't think my solution is perfect (not even close). I don't think
their laws are good, but that is just my opinion. I respect your opinion
as much as you apparently respect mine. And that is a great thing. By
the way, I am also engaged in other activities that you consider more
democratic.

Let me end by saying the following to everyone on the lists:
We all know that political debates on international lists tend to get
out of hand and cause flames. We see it every second day. I think it is
great Rakesh expressed his opinion, and since he asked about it
publicly, I gave you mine. As I said, it is not perfect by any means and
far be it from me not to respect people who think otherwise.
However, for the sake of sanity, I ask you not to write any more
opinions regarding this matter to the lists. Of course you are still
free to do that, but I won't react on any. The fact being that we have a
pretty diverse background and the chances of actually reaching an
agreement are more than slim.

Many Greetings
Paul Sebastian Ziegler
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