full-disclosure - Re: [Professional IT Security Providers

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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:49:23 -0500
From: <elazar@...hmail.com>
To: <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>,<trains@...torunix.com>
Subject: Re: [Professional IT Security Providers -
	Exposed] Cybertrust ( C + )

"Public facing websites are usually outsourced to professional 
graphics  
arts firms and developed under the supervision of the Director of 
Business Development.  It's usually a solid pile of fluffy 
buzzwords and crap."

Its sad how true this is. What makes it worse is half the time the 
Director of Business Development doesn't even understand what the 
company does. Unfortunately, in many companies, there is a huge 
disconnect between the marketing side and those who actually 
deliver the services. Someone had mentioned before that reviewing 
companies based on their site was like reviewing a restaurant based 
on their menu. Actually, this is worse, because at least at a 
restaurant, generally, what is on the menu is what is served, this 
isn't always the case with a corporate website. You have a very 
good idea, however, trying to cut through marketing fluff on 
website isn't going to leave you with much of anything because 
there is nothing there to begin with.

On a side note, you had reviewed RA Security. My company has used 
them in the past, and I do agree that their site may be a bit 
disorganized but I have found them to be very professional and easy 
to work with.

Elazar

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:20:57 -0500 trains <trains@...torunix.com> 
wrote:
>I am a pentester and IDS/IPS administrator for a large-ish 
>security  
>firm.  None of our tech staff worked on the corporate web site.  
>We  
>are too busy, and frankly, it's just not my bag.
>
>Public facing websites are usually outsourced to professional 
>graphics  
>arts firms and developed under the supervision of the Director of  
>
>Business Development.  It's usually a solid pile of fluffy 
>buzzwords  
>and crap.
>
>I like where you are going, you're just not there yet.  Your  
>methodology is weak.  You need to review the "actionability" of 
>the  
>deliverables.  Ask for sanitized sample reports.
>
>The argument of who has the most leet hackers is unmeasurable and  
>
>pointless.  For commercial security firms the real criteria needs 
>to  
>be focused on the business process that helps their clients 
>improve  
>their overall security posture.  Not just, "I found an XSS on your 
> 
>site", but how is the security infrastructure being managed and  
>improved.
>
>Try looking at the "actionability" aspect of the companies'  
>deliverables and see if you don't get better findings.
>
>Some possible things to look for:
>   Do they include a screen shot for every finding?
>   Do they correlate each finding to a specific spot of code in 
>the  
>vulnerable app?
>   Do they work with your developers to assist with remediation 
>and  
>permanent resolution?
>   How much app dev experience do the pentesters have?
>   Do they have Language and framework specialists on staff to 
>review  
>each finding and make relevant remediation recommendations?
>   Do they meet with the security team, the networking team, the  
>server support team and the developer team separately in break-out 
> 
>sessions with specialists in each area?
>   Does every finding include a recommendation for permanent 
>remediation?
>
>Please get better.  I like where you are going, you're just not 
>there yet.
>
>t.r.
>
>-------------------------------------------------
>Email solutions, MS Exchange alternatives and extrication,
>security services, systems integration.
>Contact:    services@...torunix.com
>
>
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