Message-ID: <4b6ee9310805231629n2bd0af27q7d4ea1be7b1f748b@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 00:29:59 +0100
From: n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com>
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: A cyber human shield?

"COL. CHARLES W. (CHARLIE) WILLIAMSON III is the staff judge advocate,
Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency, at
Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. He has served as a flight test manager
for small, air-breathing missiles; as a judge advocate at two
base-level legal offices; as a staff judge advocate for two base-level
legal offices; and as the first staff judge advocate for the Joint
Task Force-Computer Network Operations. The views expressed here are
the author's own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Air Force
or Defense Department."

But it takes a faggot like me to point out the biggest error of your article.

All the best,

n3td3v

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 11:03 PM, n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com> wrote:
> A cyber human shield? A rogue government could take traditional
> military tactics [1] and put them into the cyberspace warfare arena.
>
> This evidently [2] hasn't been thought about after I read the military
> article cited by S/U/N <s.u.n@...e.fr>.
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield
>
> [2] http://www.afji.com/2008/05/3375884/
>
> All the best,
>
> n3td3v
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com>
> Date: Wed, May 21, 2008 at 11:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] pentagon botnet
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
>
>
> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 9:16 AM, S/U/N <s.u.n@...e.fr> wrote:
>> http://www.afji.com/2008/05/3375884/
>>
>
> What if the bot net of the enemy state are hospital computers, will
> you still attack them? What if the bot net of the enemy state are
> power station computers, will you still attack them? Will you risk
> putting civilian life at risk if the enemy state hides their bot net
> in national infrastructure that will make you look the worst if you
> attack them?
>
> Enemy states would end up hiding their bot nets in places you wouldn't
> want to attack... because if you did it would shut down a national
> infrastructure. The enemy states aren't going to have their bot nets
> in home computers with Windows Vista running, they are going to be
> national infrastructure computers that if you attack them will put the
> countries civilians at risk, making you the baddies and them the
> goodies.
>
> You haven't thought things through well enough and the tactics your
> enemy state will use to make you the baddie for attacking their bot
> net, which you will have a hell of a job convincing the single mom and
> retired couple crowd that a hospital or power station was something
> called a bot net which they haven't even heard of a bot net before and
> are told it was attacking pentagon networks or something, which didn't
> affect the single mom and retired couple to begin with, but are told
> its a good idea to shut down a countries hospital or power station
> anyway.
>
> Just trust your government, shutting down a rogue nations national
> infrastructure is in your best interest, even though joe public don't
> know what the hell a bot net is and why that fluffy innocent looking
> hospital or power station was one and that it was attacking the United
> States pentagon networks. Thats really going to go down well with the
> American public who one fifth of have never used or sent an e-mail.
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9946706-7.html
>
> From the American public point of view and the rest of the world's
> point of view it will be US government attacking innocent hospitals
> and power stations that look like its doing nothing wrong from the
> single mom and retired couple prospectus, so how are you going to win
> over hearts and minds that shutting down a countries national
> infrastructure was a good idea, when there is nothing wrong with that
> hospital or power station to the untrained public eye?
>
> You're going to need to educate your citizens first of all what a bot
> net is, and then teach them that an enemy state is hiding rogue bot
> net computers in hospitals and power stations, and that you need to
> attack that infrastructure, and once you've attacked and shut down the
> enemy states hospital and power station that from the untrained eye
> was doing nothing wrong from the prospectus of the one fifth of
> Americans who have never used e-mail before, you'll need to find a way
> of proving that hostpital or power station did have a rogue bot net in
> it and that you weren't just making it up.
>
> There are probably more cunning national infrastructure places your
> enemy state would hide their bot net than just a hospital or power
> station, but those are pretty good standard examples to get your mind
> thought juices flowing. So how are you going to convince joe public
> why you're DDoS'ing eastern countries national infrastructure and its
> citizens are out on the streets protesting because they have no food,
> water, health care, electricity and whatever other thing you attacked
> because the enemy state had placed their rogue bot net computers there
> for the United States to offensively attack?
>
> Those people out on the streets protesting won't even know what a bot
> net is or understand why their power station, hospital or other
> national infrastructure has suddenly stopped working. Try explaining
> that to them and the rest of the world when they are starving and in
> need of world aid organizations to come save their lives.
>
> Its not going to work, so quit this pentagon bot net idea already,
> there is enough carnage and problems in the world without the above
> carry on happening, all because of military bot nets attacking
> military bot nets that are cunningly placed in national infrastructure
> to make whoever attacks it look bad.
>
> All the best,
>
> n3td3v
>

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