Message-ID: <4b6ee9310809211652o526540b6h2da250f63c60a0ed@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:52:05 +0100
From: n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com>
To: "John Cartwright" <johnc@...k.org.uk>, full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Fwd: Full Disclosure - non technical elite

'cyber politica' would need to be setup by John Cartwright, or it
wouldn't become an official internet security mailing list on such
matters. It would just become funsec or something else thats lame,
thats not what im shooting for here. There needs to be an official
cyber security mailing list for cyber politics thats unmoderated and
unbiased, and you don't get kicked off it for any reason. Funsec is
largely about gadi and his agenda, and security professionals from
anti-virus companies and other places, its lame to put it bluntly. I
post there and because I criticized gadi and paul ferguson I got
kicked off. even marcus sachs hangs out on funsec, so being able to
criticize the people that deserve to be is an impossibilty. there
needs to be a neutral, central, unmoderated, unbiased mailing list for
non-technical stuff that anybody, script kids, hackers, professionals,
whoever can post whatever about anyone or anything. You can't do that
on funsec, gadi is too trigger happy and protective. We need an
industry recognized mailing list that is the known place to go and
post about particular stuff, and not be banned from or have
subscribers calling you names and making up fake aliases like
'ureleet' to give you a hard time for being on the list. We need an
industry recognized central hub known about, agreed on place for cyber
politics. Like i've said already im sick of being written about in the
media and on blogs for being on full-disclosure, so I reckon a
non-technical version of full-disclosure is the answer, run by the
same guy John Cartwright, who is a decent bloke who I trust and
respect.

there are plenty of legitimate things to be discussed on cyber politica:

- cyber security, in relation to marcus sachs and cronies, government
stuff, gary mckinnon, cyber command etc.

- isp community and their role with cyber security.

- law enforcement and their role with cyber security.

- public / private sector cooperation.

- news article posts, blogs posts, Dancho Danchev, Nate McFeters,
Juha-Matti Laurio, other news items.

- speeches, texts, other stuff, post info about ppl you've managed to
obtain etc.

- you are an IT professional and you want to report about a service
outage, maybe a security website or other service is down and you want
to tell ppl.

- debates about security features in products, non technical.

- political cyber debate, who attacked georgia, analysis about it etc,
was it a false flag etc.

- general intelligence about companies, people, other stuff.

- security conference spam, where they are being held etc.

- proposals to the security community / industry, gadi cross posts
about zero-day term being scraped, other buzzword stuff.

- rants, raves, flames, joke, gossip rumours, speculation.

- threats you know of, zero-day rumours, zero-day for sale.

- paranoid stuff, things you think could happen but haven't, plots,
dooms day scenarios.

- your security forum, website, advertise it, got security course or
other thing to promote.

- self promotion, self glorification, grand claims.

- anything else that seems to offend users of full-disclosure in its
current format.

- anything you wanted to post to full-disclosure but never did.

- fuzzy porn?

- big multi way discussions about stuff, you don't feel shy about
talking about like you do on the original full-disclosure incase you
got accused of feeding someone who other people don't agree with.
people want to talk about stuff, but dont on the normal
full-disclosure format because they get accused of creating 'noise'.

- possibly world news as well. although this would endanger the list
of becoming discussions about normal politics, which should be avoided
at all costs, unless its somehow to do with electronics, telecoms,
computer security, national infrastructure in relation to cyber /
technology security, or wire tapping that affects hardware of products
(products with possible backdoors in the circuitry by rogue regimes?
china? other? the dangers of outsourcing military software to other
countries? china? other?) or the internet and its users. cyber law,
possibly TSA stuff, although im already bored with cyber security
folks in america talking about airport security, its rather boring and
repetitive, and off-topic. security theater is also a boring topic,
that bruce schneier constantly mumbles about on his blog.

cyber politica would allow any noise, mass debates, flames,
anything... and no one would be accused of wrong doings like on the
current full-disclosure format.

The list of stuff above just give you an outline of stuff that could
be post on it, but its really upto anyone what they post, they can
post anything non-technical, and it doesn't need to be strictly about
cyber politics.

I'm asking John Cartwright to be responsible for the infrastructure
and maintenance and that it keeps with the 'lists.grok.org.uk' domain.

I hope it would be kept underground and be non-profit and never be
sponsored by a company like secunia like the current format
full-disclosure is. it would be funded by public donations, the users
of the list decide if the list is good and how much they should give.

who would find the list useful? intelligence services, government,
bedroom hackers, do it yourself spies, everyone. there is a current
void that needs filled, people are constantly being muted or
discouraged from posting or talking about certain things on the
original format full-disclosure. cyber politica would be everything
thats deemed non-technical and socially unaccepted on the original
full-disclosure format.

nothing would change about the original full-disclosure, it would
remain largely the same, just without the 'noise' and people
complaining about users who are non-technical.

Thank you for reading this email, you're probably paid to sit here and
read my proposal anyway, so don't complain about n3td3v or write about
me in seedy news articles on commercial websites like securityfocus
and robert lemos, who at some point in his career thought it was
acceptable to write a news article about someone he knows nothing
about. keep the smear campaign coming though about n3td3v, its
currently going on still, claims about n3td3v mental state etc, ignore
it, its all smear campaign bullshit to discredit n3td3v. and that dude
Razi Shaban, who keeps informing people im a troll. half of them are
probably in intelligence etc making sure only people they like get any
grab of influence etc.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rodney Mulraney <rodney@...gees.com>
Date: Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 8:54 PM
Subject: Full Disclosure - non technical elite
To: n3td3v <xploitable@...il.com>


hi there :)

i just joined the list a few days ago, again... (i was subscribed a
few years back a alittle while as well)...

firstly im sorry to hear about you getting attacked by people,
personally i dont see so much of everything as noise as a lot of
people,  but heh thats just me.

ok im just wondering ... im probably being stupid, but if you really
wanna split the list like this, i would be happy to join :)
im not sure if you have a problem setting up another list for the
purpose ? but if you do... ive just written a mailing list program and
have the site/domain of gadgees.com, and would be happy to run a list
for you and others there if its need ? i could set it up and have it
running in like a couple of minutes no problem :)

so if you need that at all just say it would be no problem,

take it easy :)

rodney

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