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Message-ID: <2d6724810903131404k34d0903esf09877038cb93fa5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:04:48 -0400 From: T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> To: Elazar Broad <elazar@...hmail.com> Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, acastigliola@...m.com Subject: Re: BBC cybercrime probe backfires Here's one to mull over. Is changing someone's mind with relentless logic tantamount to 'breaking and entering' into their mind? -Travis On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Elazar Broad <elazar@...hmail.com> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I am inclined to agree, except that you still have issues with the > electronic equivalent of breaking and entering. Case in point, > there is a good chance you would be arrested and prosecuted if you > opened the door to another persons dwelling which did not have a > lock installed, and installed a lock and left him/her the key, > simply because you entered their property without permission. From > a ethics perspective, most people would judge you a good Samaritan, > you helped someone else protect their property, however the law > doesn't see it that way, primarily because of the fact that, if you > don't have permission to be there, chances are you are not wanted > there, no matter what your intentions may be. > > As far as hijacking bot nets, one who steals from a thief may be a > thief, but one who stops one in the act is a hero. Bot nets are > always "in the act"... > > On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:00:47 -0400 T Biehn <tbiehn@...il.com> wrote: >>More people should hijack machines and push updates to them if >>their >>users are unable or unwilling. >> >>First an Analogy: >>If someone's letting money launders use their bank account to >>launder >>money out of INACTION that's still illegal, the same SHOULD be >>true of >>people who leave their systems unpatched. >> >>These machines are negligently left open to be used in 'nefarious >>criminal activity.' >> >>Plan of Action: >>It's your civic duty to write worms, hijack botnets and patch >>machines >>with or without user consent. >>This is absolutely moral holding to the various tests (is it self >>defeating if -everyone- does it etc etc) >>Just don't get caught doing it. >> >>I'm disgusted by the imposition that you'd decry their actions for >>being illegal when they were clearly moral and represent a net >>benefit >>for society. Haven't you heard of this guy called Gandhi who >>didn't >>subscribe to the arbitrary superficial morality provided by the >>word >>of the law and only acted on what he knew to be moral? >> >>It's time to elevate yourself out of your own mind-slime and into >>2009. >>We all still have a long way to go. >> >>-Travis >> >>On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Castigliola, Angelo >><ACastigliola@...m.com> wrote: >>> Very unorthodox and unethical. >>> >>> >>> >>> Angelo Castigliola III >>> EISRM - Application Security Architecture >>> >>> Unum >>> >>> acastigliola@...m.com >>> >>> >>> >>> Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own personal opinions >>and do not >>> represent my employer's view in any way. >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk >>> [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of >>James >>> Matthews >>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:10 AM >>> To: Ivan . >>> Cc: full-disclosure >>> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] BBC cybercrime probe backfires >>> >>> >>> >>> I agree! Why can't another people hack into computers to >>show.... This is >>> such BS and the BBC should be hit hard by what they did. >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Ivan . <ivanhec@...il.com> >>wrote: >>>> The BBC hacked into 22,000 computers as part of an >>investigation into >>>> cybercrime but the move quickly backfired, with legal experts >>claiming >>>> the broadcaster broke the law and security gurus saying the >>experiment >>>> went too far. >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/security/bbc-cybercrime- >>probe-backfires/2009/03/13/1236447465056.html >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> http://www.astorandblack.com/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. >>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html >>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Charset: UTF8 > Version: Hush 3.0 > Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify > > wpwEAQECAAYFAkm6x64ACgkQi04xwClgpZhBnQP9Gyf79ajWHLQWT/qwpcTlXRRo2Aev > RPy7fqKDezxbdW6Wj4+NF01jJKnN1hxvzO6y7UJu8nZb/8MjFjQpptX8cDEOXkSS/eL2 > 6BQk6awvUVE3bDaGnSGtKxzRoB/9QacSWIY2aesUei3SO+nLvDY6yDSTgluY297qecO2 > 5IDsLvU= > =uFrf > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > Easy-to-use, advanced features, flexible phone systems. 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