Message-ID: <AANLkTimDwp8AceGlucOWB0taaSQm9TyuMXxCmiySvFNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 00:08:17 +0100
From: Benji <me@...ji.com>
To: Larry Seltzer <larry@...ryseltzer.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk, Daniel Sichel <daniels@...derosatel.com>,
	"Thor \(Hammer of God\)" <Thor@...merofgod.com>
Subject: Re: RDP, can it be done safely?

I like this idea.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 11:58 PM, Larry Seltzer <larry@...ryseltzer.com>wrote:

>  I might  be able to buy you one beer with the money, but it won’t be
> anything good.
>
>
>
> *From:* Thor (Hammer of God) [mailto:Thor@...merofgod.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 09, 2010 6:56 PM
> *To:* Larry Seltzer; noloader@...il.com; Daniel Sichel
>
> *Cc:* full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> *Subject:* RE: [Full-disclosure] RDP, can it be done safely?
>
>
>
> And you didn’t include me??  I’m HURT!  ;)
>
> t
>
>
>
> *From:* Larry Seltzer [mailto:larry@...ryseltzer.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:54 PM
> *To:* Thor (Hammer of God); noloader@...il.com; Daniel Sichel
> *Cc:* full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> *Subject:* RE: [Full-disclosure] RDP, can it be done safely?
>
>
>
> <digression>
>
> 10 years ago I wrote a book on Terminal Services for Windows 2000. Believe
> it or not, I still get trivial royalties on it, $6.81 for the first quarter
> of this year, and the book has been out of print for years.
>
>
>
> Someone out there in 2010 is buying a book on Windows 2000, sucking out the
> last copies of it left in the channel.
>
> </digression>
>
>
>
> *From:* full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [mailto:
> full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Thor (Hammer of
> God)
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 09, 2010 6:33 PM
> *To:* noloader@...il.com; Daniel Sichel
> *Cc:* full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Full-disclosure] RDP, can it be done safely?
>
>
>
> This is not correct.  While the default setting for an RDP connection is
> “client-negotiate” that does not mean that you will automatically get a
> no/low bit encryption session.   And one should note that this has nothing
> to do with “local” or “remote” users:  To be pedantic, **all** RDP
> sessions are “remote.”  You can easily configure the server to require
> certificate-based TLS encryption and have a host of other transport security
> options.
>
>
>
> I’m not sure what you mean by “if the users are remote you might find it
> easier to user another remote access solution.”  That makes no sense to me.
>
>
>
> Daniel – If I understand your question, your concern with having standard
> users connecting up to and running software on a server machine, correct?
> This is typically where most people fall short in application deployment via
> terminal services.   You should certainly make sure that the users are
> standard user and that you’ve properly ACL’d off the application and data.
> The model you describe sounds relatively straight-forward in that the server
> will be a dedicated application server (if I understand correctly).  When
> you have high numbers of users where some are local administrators and they
> all have home directories with various access points to shares, etc, there
> are other, more complicated methods you must consider when deploying TS.
>
>
>
> I’ve done fair amount of work with RDP, so I’m happy to help if you can
> give me some more information.
>
>
>
> t
>
>
>
> *From:* full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [mailto:
> full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Jeffrey Walton
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 09, 2010 2:19 PM
> *To:* Daniel Sichel
> *Cc:* full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Full-disclosure] RDP, can it be done safely?
>
>
>
> Hi Dainiel,
>
>
>
> > You might find it easier to use another remote access solution.
>
> I probably should have elaborated: if users are local, understand that RDP
> is probably un-encrypted or weakly encrypted. If the users are remote, you
> might find it easier to use another remote access solution.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Jeffrey Walton <noloader@...il.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Dan,
>
>
>
> Where are the users located (local LAN or from an untrusted network such as
> the Internet)?
>
>
>
> If I recall correctly, RDP encryption is "turned on" from a GPO setting
> that applies to the host/server, and not just RDP [or was it strong
> encryption?] (corrections, please). So you can get a secure RDP connection
> at the cost of possibly breaking other functionality.
>
> You might find it easier to use another remote access solution.
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 4:35 PM, Daniel Sichel <daniels@...derosatel.com>
> wrote:
>
>    We have a boneheaded group of software developers who even in this day
> and age eschew the client server model of software for the easier dumber run
> it from the console school of design. So I have this idiotic Windows
> accounting application that MUST run on an application server, cannot be run
> from a client.  Rather than have my accounting department log in directly to
> the physical box, I would like to have them use some flavor of terminal
> services on my Windows server. My question therefore is, can I turn on RDP
> safely, without exposing my Windows server to risk of exploitation?
>
> Thanks for any help you can give.
>
> Dan S.
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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