Message-Id: <20100706041251.7DA562003D@smtp.hushmail.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 21:12:51 -0700
From: "epixoip" <epixoip@...h.com>
To: nbrito@...ure.org
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Tool] - inundator - an intrusion detection
	false positives generator.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 20:52:40 -0700 Nelson Brito <nbrito@...ure.org>
wrote:
>If you don't deal well with criticism, don't send such "31337"
>tool to a public mailing list, keep it just for your friends.

Criticism? All you did was demand credit for work nobody has even
heard of, much less cared about.


> I
>got you incubator and it looks like: "look mom, I did my first
>Perl script". No offense, kid! Okay... Keep studying and you're
>gonna to learn more and more...

Heh. I'm not even sure where to begin with this one, so I won't.


>
>Just to let you know, because you're probably 2 years old and live
>in the jungle,

Oh, snap!

>here is the NNG and ENG post:
>http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/fulldisclosure/2008-
>09/0397.html

Wow, you are far more self-important than I ever gave you credit
for.

This will be my last reply on this thread, by the way, I'm going to
go ahead and kill it here. Anyone reading this thread can clearly
see just how desperate you are to make yourself look good and make
your name known, and the last thing I want to do is give more
attention to an attention whore.


>Nelson Brito
>Security Researcher
>http://fnstenv.blogspot.com/
>
>Sent on an  iPhone wireless device. Please, forgive any potential
>misspellings!
>
>On Jul 6, 2010, at 12:20 AM, "epixoip" <epixoip@...h.com> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:34:24 -0700 Nelson Brito
><nbrito@...ure.org>
>> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the credits and keep doing the great work! Just for
>the
>>> records: NNG is not a tool, it is just a PoC for the concept
>you
>>> are just mimicking. Really creative!!! 8)
>>
>>
>> Again, nobody has ever heard of this "NNG PoC" (which, by the
>way,
>> you did call it a tool in your packetstorm description) until
>you
>> started demanding we give you credit for your ground-breaking
>> research into a decade-old topic. And again, as I've clearly
>> highlighted, the only parallel between NNG and Inundator is we
>both
>> generate false positives. Nothing new here, not even for NNG.
>>
>>
>>> I will keep me the right to be polite.
>>
>>
>> That doesn't make you any less of a douche.
>>
>>
>>> BTW, I don like my iPhone... 8)
>>> Specially my apps for that one.
>>
>>
>> Erm, okay?
>>
>>
>>> Nelson Brito
>>> Security Researcher
>>> http://fnstenv.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Sent on an  iPhone wireless device. Please, forgive any
>potential
>>> misspellings!
>>>
>>> On Jul 5, 2010, at 7:56 PM, "epixoip" <epixoip@...h.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, for fuck's sake...
>>>>
>>>> <acerbity>
>>>>
>>>> Wow, you've really called us out on this one. How embarrassing
>>> for
>>>> us.
>>>>
>>>> Please accept our sincerest apologies, Mr. Brito. We now
>>> understand
>>>> how phrases like "inundator is a modern twist on an old
>concept"
>>>> and "Snot, fwsnort's snortspoof, and possibly others beat us
>to
>>> the
>>>> punch" can be incredibly obtuse and largely indecipherable,
>>>> requiring *at least* a third grade education for full
>>>> comprehension. We accept full responsibility for failing to
>>> write
>>>> this announcement with the lowest common denominator in mind,
>>> and
>>>> promise to limit our vocabulary to only words found on
>>>> http://simple.wikipedia.org in future posts.
>>>>
>>>> Also, thank you for taking the time to hi-jack our
>announcement
>>> by
>>>> linking to your incredibly superior NNG tool. We failed to
>>> include
>>>> it in our list of credits, and it brings us much shame. Please
>>>> excuse us while we prepare for Seppuku.
>>>>
>>>> </acerbity>
>>>>
>>>> To set the record straight right up front, we never stated
>this
>>> was
>>>> an original idea. In fact, we clearly stated this was *NOT* an
>>>> original idea. And we *DID,* in fact, credit SNOT -- and
>>> fwsnort's
>>>> snortspoof as well -- even though we discovered them after we
>>> had
>>>> already begun working on Inundator. We didn't credit
>IDSwakeup,
>>>> because while IDSwakeup is kind of cool, it uses a static set
>>>> payloads to generate the false positives, and we use a dynamic
>>> set.
>>>> We thought parsing Snort's rules files to dynamically build
>>> attack
>>>> payloads was at least original, but when we learned otherwise,
>>> we
>>>> credited the only other two apps we could find that did
>>> something
>>>> similar: SNOT and snortspoof. So we're definitely going out of
>>> our
>>>> way here to give credit where credit is due, even though we
>had
>>> no
>>>> knowledge of these applications when we thought of the
>concept.
>>>> Again, all of this was clearly explained in plain English.
>>>>
>>>> Now then, back to you.
>>>>
>>>> At first I presumed you were just a self-important moron who
>>>> couldn't be bothered to actually read the full text of the
>>>> announcement before crafting your witty reply on your iPhone
>and
>>>> publicly embarrassing yourself on four separate mailing lists
>>>> concurrently. That is until I paid a visit to your outstanding
>>>> little blog, and realized that not only are you a self-
>important
>>>> queef, but you're also a little fucking crybaby who wants
>credit
>>>> and attention for every original thought you didn't have.
>>>>
>>>> As we can clearly see from your blog, "ANY INFORMATION TAKEN
>>> FROM
>>>> THIS BLOG MUST GIVE THE CREDITS TO THE AUTHOR AND ADD A
>BACKLINK
>>> TO
>>>> THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE." This must mean you observed some
>parallel
>>>> between NNG and Inundator, and thus feel we should be giving
>you
>>>> some sort of credit and a backlink (although I suppose the
>>> backlink
>>>> has already been covered by you douching all over this
>thread.)
>>>> Let's see what sort of parallels could possibly exist between
>>> NNG
>>>> and Inundator:
>>>>
>>>> From http://packetstormsecurity.org/filedesc/nng-4.13r-
>>>> public.rar.html:
>>>>
>>>> "Description: NNG is a tool that creates crafted packets to
>>> cause
>>>> MS02-039 false-positives against IPS/IDS. NNG does not have
>the
>>>> same approach used by Snot and Stick, where the main goal is
>>> DoSing
>>>> the IPS. Instead, NNG tries to make IPS/IDS "numbed" enough to
>>> have
>>>> the leakage of real attack.
>>>>
>>>> "Author: Nelson Brito"
>>>>
>>>> First of all, I don't think SNOT's main goal was to DoS the
>IPS,
>>> as
>>>> you so cleverly state. Second, I have no fucking clue what
>"NNG
>>>> tries to make IPS/IDS 'numbed' enough to have the leakage of
>>> real
>>>> attack" is even supposed to mean. I see some English words
>>> there,
>>>> but that sentence means fuck-all.
>>>>
>>>> So from what I can gather, your little tool is capable of send
>a
>>>> single packet mimicking MS02-039. Bra-fucking-vo, how
>>> innovative.
>>>> So it isn't multi-threaded, no attempt is made to send the
>>> attack
>>>> anonymously, you're using a single static payload, and you
>>>> essentially have little to no user configuration at all.
>What's
>>> the
>>>> point? I actually have no idea what the actual goal of NNG is,
>>>> other than to serve as a POC for why pattern matching is full
>of
>>>> fail. But then again, that's something we've known for over a
>>>> decade (although I see you still give presentations on the
>topic
>>> as
>>>> if it were both new and original), so again -- what is the
>point
>>> of
>>>> NNG? Even snortspoof, though dated and pretty much useless by
>>>> today's standards, is vastly more impressive than NNG, as it
>at
>>>> least makes an attempt to anonymize attacks and dynamically
>>> parses
>>>> an array of signatures to generate an attack instead of hard-
>>> coding
>>>> ONE payload. Who are you giving credit to for NNG, by the way?
>>> Oh
>>>> that's right -- yourself, even though there is literally
>nothing
>>>> original about NNG. By the way, I like how you have a file
>named
>>>> "Authors" in the NNG source tarball, where you list yourself
>and
>>>> your contact information twice.
>>>>
>>>> Your pathetic piece of shit doesn't even come close to what
>>>> Inundator does, so why the fuck would we give NNG credit? Were
>>> you
>>>> so disillusioned by your own self-importance that you honestly
>>> saw
>>>> a parallel between NNG and Inundator? Or perhaps you were just
>>>> trying to drive traffic to your little piece of shit by
>linking
>>>> everyone to it after trying to make yourself look superior?
>No,
>>> I
>>>> honestly think your cunt start aching at the thought of us
>>>> crediting SNOT and snortspoof, but not NNG. Reality is a
>bitch,
>>> huh.
>>>>
>>>> Here's my advice to you, Mr. Brito: slap some vagisil on your
>>>> aching pussy and shut the fuck up. Nobody has heard of you,
>and
>>>> nobody has heard of NNG. Get over yourself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oh, and Inundator is still available at
>>>> http://inundator.sourceforge.net/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Stay classy,
>>>> /epixoip.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 09:51:48 -0700 Nelson Brito
>>> <nbrito@...ure.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> That is not new and you should give the credits, not just for
>>> NNG
>>>>> (http://packetstormsecurity.org/filedesc/nng-4.13r-
>>>>> public.rar.html), but you are missing STICK, SNOT and and
>>>>> IDSWAKEUP as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nelson Brito
>>>>> Security Researcher
>>>>> http://fnstenv.blogspot.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent on an  iPhone wireless device. Please, forgive any
>>> potential
>>>>> misspellings!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 1, 2010, at 10:25 PM, "epixoip" <epixoip@...h.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> homepage: http://inundator.bindshell.nl/
>>>>>> deb repo: deb http://inundator.sourceforge.net/repo/ all/
>>>>>> gpg key : http://inundator.sourceforge.net/inundator.asc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Announcing the release of inundator v0.5!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> inundator is a modern twist on an old concept -- it's an
>>>>>> IDS/IPS/WAF evasion tool, used to anonymously flood
>intrusion
>>>>>> detection systems with false positives in order to obfuscate
>a
>>>>> real
>>>>>> attack. inundator leverages the vagueness and poor quality
>of
>>>>>> Snort's rules files to generate completely harmless packets
>/
>>>>> HTTP
>>>>>> requests that contain just enough keywords to trigger a
>false
>>>>>> positive. We thought this was an original idea, but it looks
>>>>> like
>>>>>> Snot, fwsnort's snortspoof, and possibly others beat us to
>the
>>>>>> punch. However, these tools were developed around the turn
>of
>>>>> the
>>>>>> century, are quite dated and well-forgotten, and overall
>quite
>>>>>> inferior to inundator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> inundator is full featured, multi-threaded, queue-based,
>>>>> supports
>>>>>> multiple targets, and requires the use of a SOCKS proxy for
>>>>>> anonymization. Via Tor, inundator is capable of generating
>>>>> around
>>>>>> 1000 false positives per minute. Via a high-bandwidth SOCKS
>>>>> proxy,
>>>>>> you might be able to generate ten times that amount.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The general idea is one would launch inundator prior to
>>> starting
>>>>> an
>>>>>> attack, allow it to run during the attack, and continue to
>run
>>>>> it a
>>>>>> while longer after you've accomplished the attack. The goal,
>>> of
>>>>>> course, is to generate an overwhelming number of false
>>> positives
>>>>> so
>>>>>> that your real attack is essentially buried within the other
>>>>>> alerts, minimizing the chance of your attack being detected.
>>> It
>>>>>> could also be used to ruin an IDS analyst's day, or keep an
>>>>>> organization's infosec department busy for a while. I
>suppose
>>> it
>>>>>> could also be used to test the effectiveness of an IDS, but
>>> no,
>>>>> not
>>>>>> really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> inundator is implemented in Perl (version >= 5.10 is
>>> recommended
>>>>>> due to ithreads bugs in previous versions), and has been
>>> tested
>>>>> on
>>>>>> Debian Lenny, Debian Squeeze, Ubuntu Jaunty, BackTrack4, and
>>> Mac
>>>>> OS
>>>>>> X against Snort v2.8.5.2. It is presumed to work on all
>POSIX
>>>>>> operating systems. Hell, it might even work on Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /epixoip.
>>>>>>
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Charset: UTF8
>> Note: This signature can be verified at
>https://www.hushtools.com/verify
>> Version: Hush 3.0
>>
>>
>wpwEAQMCAAYFAkwyoQoACgkQacHgESW3wZoLBgP+PbxGwDMzuS0OSDJYiStD/YokjxC
>E
>>
>THV+banN8SdnYxfft7vgDlhNoXJlyE61wULSy1G4zuUCJT8+Ow78uxd6BMkmbt3F25p
>J
>>
>xrZsu8lgBm3m24vIqNmHwbvif2BOxMqiBwHlVBaQURXyH2RITLInmRmorTyvq4lxGPW
>5
>> xhdJc1A=
>> =Zdzn
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Charset: UTF8
Version: Hush 3.0
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify

wpwEAQMCAAYFAkwyrUMACgkQacHgESW3wZqfSwQAtKyc8XZvxC16uGoZui5Tu1SgGK/m
NteWdM2+FIubQA61Rn++JLZ0rjNFprf0HR5SVQNgg8fF/Y8C2nmecXUxgxGQNWqLb49l
zkcEH0KijX4T83fHhDBPe5i7asm24T0sudPSMA6ebEWIoUX2B6AZnDGfBmoKj/TQpWlY
8VctizY=
=ATDp
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists