full-disclosure - Re: Fwd: Rate Stratfor's Incident Response

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Message-ID: <4F0D3B3E.3040403@oneechan.org>
Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 01:33:18 -0600
From: Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org>
To: Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: Fwd: Rate Stratfor's Incident Response

On 1/11/12 1:21 AM, Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:18:40 CST, Laurelai said:
>
>> real opportunities for a career and they are often right. Microsoft
>> hired some kid who hacked their network, it is a safe bet he isn't going
>> to be causing any trouble anymore.
> How safe a bet, exactly?  Safe enough to bet your business on it? Microsoft has
> $40B in cash handy to survive on if something goes wrong.  What's *your* Plan B
> if the kid you hired blabs about his gig and one of his buddies rapes your net using
> the credentials you gave the kid to do the pen test?
>
>>                                                      Talking about the trust issue, who
>> would you trust more the person who has all the certs and experience
>> that told you your network was safe or the 14 year old who proved him
>> wrong?
> A really clever guy by the name of Edsgar Dyjkstra once said "Testing can prove
> the presence of bugs, but not their absence".  If you're getting a pen test
> done by somebody who says your network is safe, you're being ripped off. First,
> all networks have holes - if the pen tester comes up empty, it doesn't mean
> your net is secure, it means finding the holes needs somebody with better
> skills. Second, any pen tester who says "the net is safe" is a rip-off artist.
> At best, they can say "we did not find any of the following vulnerabilities we
> tested for. There may be vulnerabilities present that we were unable to find
> under the rules of engagement, which limit the scope and total time and money
> spent".
>
> Also, It's not just about who do you trust more to find the holes, it's who you
> trust to be professional while they do it.
>
> Or the "put your money where your mouth is (literally)" version - which one
> would you rather have working for your bank when they find a security hole that
> allows them access to your checking account?
>
If you guys cant scan for basic sql injection and these kids can then 
theres a real problem, thats my point here. The attacks are so simple 
children can do it and the so called experts arent finding them or just 
arent looking so im not sure if its incompetence or apathy behind these 
high profile hacks, you can teach these kids the same skillsets the so 
called experts have, but you cant teach incompetent people to be 
competent as its a willful mindset to not learn new things, and theres 
no solution for apathy other than hiring someone who cares.  These kids 
have the motivation to learn new things and the energy to apply them. 
Something the people they are owning lack sorely. As the ancient proverb 
says "Set a thief to catch a thief"


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