Message-ID: <CAFMAuHo-r_S-1u6vh1-fy7n0LHvR7AJzLQv4C6NDx6VvjxPsHg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:11:03 +0200
From: doc mombasa <doc.mombasa@...il.com>
To: Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: Obama Order Sped Up Wave of Cyberattacks
 Against Iran

"Excuse me but im a veteran who served 10 years in the Army"
right.... :)

2012/6/8 Laurelai <laurelai@...echan.org>

>  On 6/8/12 1:03 PM, Thor (Hammer of God) wrote:
>
>  >> finding solutions to countries using cyberwar and using innocent
> peoples machines to carry it out,****
>
> >>  invading peoples privacy and generally doing terrible stuff in the
> name of god and country.
>
> ****
>
> What solution?  And who exactly is going to “find” it?  The entire history
> of mankind is based on the “terrible stuff we do in the name of god and
> country.”  We, of course, being humans.  All we need is one of the two and
> we’ve got all the justification we need to go off and kill someone else for
> having a different god or different country.   Note I said “justification”
> and not “motivation.”   God and country are just excuses – means to an
> end.  There’s always another agenda.   ****
>
> ** **
>
> Man does things for two reasons:  to get laid, or to get paid.
> Everything else is just a nice fuzzy wrap to make us feel better about
> ourselves.  “Finding some other solution” is  naïve and a waste of time.
> We, and everyone else, will do whatever we want to do, and do whatever it
> takes to get away with it.  It’s as simple as that.  It’s easy and
> convenient for you to bitch about the injustices from behind a keyboard
> when men and woman are out there DYING for their country and the integrity
> of what they believe in, irrespective of the basis of the decisions their
> commanding bodies have for sending them out there.  It’s called “real
> life.”  Grow up and go get that bleeding heart sewn up at some free clinic,
> paid for by the government that has to do the hard work in order to
> preserve your right to whine about it. ****
>
> ** **
>
> *[image: Description: Description: Description: Description: Description:
> Description: Description: Description: Description: TimSig]***
>
> * *
>
> *Timothy “Thor”  Mullen*
>
> *www.hammerofgod.com*
>
> *Thor’s Microsoft Security Bible<http://www.amazon.com/Thors-Microsoft-Security-Bible-Collection/dp/1597495727>
> *
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [
> mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk<full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk>]
> *On Behalf Of *Laurelai
> *Sent:* Friday, June 08, 2012 9:04 AM
> *To:* full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Full-disclosure] Obama Order Sped Up Wave of Cyberattacks
> Against Iran****
>
> ** **
>
> On 6/8/12 11:38 AM, valdis.kletnieks@...edu wrote: ****
>
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:48:33 -0400, Ian Hayes said:****
>
>  On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 1:40 PM, andrew.wallace <andrew.wallace@...ketmail.com> <andrew.wallace@...ketmail.com> wrote:****
>
>  On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:43 PM,  <valdis.kletnieks@...edu> <valdis.kletnieks@...edu> wrote:****
>
>  One could equally well read that as "We're fed up and about to****
>
> pound North Korea even further back into the Stone Age".****
>
>  ** **
>
> With Stuxnet, it was lucky nobody was seriously injured.****
>
> ** **
>
> You cannot condone such weapons Valdis, or your hat will start to turn grey,****
>
> black.****
>
>  ** **
>
> Stuxnet may not have killed anyone, but several Iranian nuclear****
>
> scientists were assassinated in conjunction with Stuxnet's release.****
>
>  ** **
>
> Please don't feed the troll - the only way he can post to full-disclosure is****
>
> if somebody quotes him in.****
>
> ** **
>
> The worst part is that Andrew's reading comprehension is as good as****
>
> always - I wasn't commenting on Stuxnet, but the move of naval forces****
>
> to the Pacific.  China isn't the only reason we might want a naval task****
>
> force over there.****
>
> ** **
>
> And I never said I condoned it, merely pointed out alternate interpretations.****
>
> ** **
>
> The funny thing is that Andrew was going on for a *long* time that there****
>
> is no such thing as cyber-warfare - when in fact it was going on while he****
>
> was denying it.****
>
> ** **
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
> _______________________________________________****
>
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.****
>
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html****
>
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>
> I think the real question we should all think on is what are we going to
> do about this kind of thing?
>
> Because the way I see it, the infosec industry is part of this problem
> until it finds a way to be a part of the solution, if you all even desire
> this.
>
> If you do then lets talk about finding solutions to countries using
> cyberwar and using innocent peoples machines to carry it out, invading
> peoples privacy and generally doing terrible stuff in the name of god and
> country.
>
> If you don't then just do us all a favor and stop calling yourself an
> infosec expert, stop pretending to be one of the good guys and just call
> yourself a mercenary and realize you are in the same class of people who
> assassinated civilian scientists for political reasons. I hope all that
> money helps you sleep at night. ****
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
>  Excuse me but im a veteran who served 10 years in the Army and I damn
> well earned my right to complain about how broken the system is, myself and
> the soldiers around me sacrificed so that we could all have a free country
> and that yes I could "whine" about it. Its called the US Constitution, we
> took an oath to uphold and defend it and everything it stands for. I didnt
> sign up to "get laid or paid" I did it to serve a cause greater than
> myself, not that you would know anything about that. Oh and that "Free
> clinic paid for by the government" is called the VA Hospital and I already
> earned the care I can receive there. Want to complain about it now? Feel
> free. You have that right. Its called freedom of speech. You are welcome.
>
> So while I'm saying here that the civil liberties I swore to uphold and
> defend are eroding away and that evil is triumphing over the US, you are
> telling me this is business as usual. Forgive me but I do not feel ok with
> allowing that to continue.
>
> Just because something evil is the established way of things or is
> becoming the established way of things doesn't mean we have to or should
> accept it. Perhaps *you* should stop being so cold and jaded about the
> evils of the world and put some you know *effort* into fixing them instead
> of trying to shout down anyone who tries or talks about trying to make the
> world better.
>
> You are honestly implying that there is absolutely nothing that can ever
> be done ever and we should all just lie down and take it, can you
> understand why I might take issue with that perspective? You are saying in
> essence "There is no more room to improve so we should never again try."
>
> All that is necessary *for evil to triumph* is for good people to do
> nothing.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

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