Message-ID: <58DB1B68E62B9F448DF1A276B0886DF194DFD759@EX2010.hammerofgod.com>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:31:18 +0000
From: "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor@...merofgod.com>
To: Daniel Hadfield <dan@...gsweep.co.uk>, "full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk"
	<full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: server security

Well, even if they are trying to get into your network specifically, you make them do more work.  They have to scan *and* identify the services.  The more scanning, fingerprinting, posting, peeking and poking they do (see what I did there? :) ) the louder they are and the more likely the attack is to be detected.  

This particular subject continues to come up, and there continues to be debate about the value, but I actually don't see how it can't be viewed as a security control, albeit a relatively trivial one to bypass.  Security in depth works. 

Timothy "Thor"  Mullen
www.hammerofgod.com
Thor's Microsoft Security Bible


-----Original Message-----
From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of Daniel Hadfield
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:49 PM
To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] server security

It depends what the attackers motive is. Is he/she trying to get as many machines infected as he/she can. Or is he/she trying to get into YOUR network.

My 2c

On 21/06/2012 20:20, Thor (Hammer of God) wrote:
> I completely agree with Gage.  The way I see it, security through obscurity is perfectly valid as long as the control remains obscured.  I think the "anyone can just scan your ports" is somewhat specious in that most (if not something like 99% or so (unqualified opinion of course)) traffic is simply noise and scans for standard ports.  This is particularly true when it matters most: during a worm outbreak or a newly published vulnerability.  Attackers simply don't have the time nor the inclination to go through and perform slow and loud scans when they can quickly move on to the next target.  If 90% of the targets have services on the default ports, then it makes far more sense to just go after the easily targets.  
>
> Perfect case-in-point is the recent RDP unpleasantness.   Non-standard port deployments were automatically removed from the target scans for 3389.  I don't see how any can argue against the security value of such a configuration.
>
> t
>
>
>
> Timothy "Thor"  Mullen
> www.hammerofgod.com
> Thor's Microsoft Security Bible
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces@...ts.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of Gage Bystrom
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:25 AM
> To: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] server security
>
> Well thats a bit of an iffy one. I'd say it IS a security measure, albeit one that is solely effective if and only if compounded with other measures.
>
> It's unlikely, but you never know, you just might miss out on a nasty worm all because you werent running on a  default port one day.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Rob <synja@...fulvisions.com> wrote:
>> We need to make a distinction between security and obscurity here. The only time changing ports actually hardens a service in any way is when the port requires elevated rights to bind, changing to 1025 for example removes the root requirement. Any actual or theoretical vulnerabilities still exist. If somebody is looking at your server, they'll find the port without much trouble. Alternate ports can remove junk traffic from logs, so there is a benefit, if not entirely a security one.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>> Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Dolan <dolan.alex@...il.com>
>> Sender: listbounce@...urityfocus.com
>> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2012 07:44:57
>> To: Littlefield, Tyler<tyler@...domain.com>
>> Cc: <security-basics@...urityfocus.com>
>> Subject: Re: server security
>>
>> One tip I have is to set SSH to a port other than 22, I don't need to 
>> tell anyone how devastating it is if someone did actually get access 
>> to that service. Putting it on some other port reduces your risk
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Littlefield, Tyler <tyler@...domain.com> wrote:
>>> Hello:
>>> I have a couple questions. First, I'll explain what I did:
>>> I set up iptables and removed all unwanted services. Iptables blocks 
>>> everything, then only opens what it wants. I also use the addrtype 
>>> module to limit broadcast and unspec addresses, etc. I also do some 
>>> malformed packet work where I just drop everything that looks 
>>> malformed (mainly by the flags).
>>> 2) I secured ssh: blocked root logins, set it up so only users in the 
>>> sshusers group can connect, and set it only to allow ppk.
>>> 3) I installed aid.
>>> 4) disabled malformed packets and forwarding/etc in sysctl.
>>> This is a basic web server that runs email, web and a couple other things.
>>> It's only running on a linode512, so I don't have the ability to set 
>>> up a ton of stuff; I also think that would make things more of a 
>>> mess. What else would be recommended?
>>> Also, I'm looking to add something to the web server; sometimes I 
>>> notice that there are a lot of requests from people scanning for 
>>> common urls like wordpress/phpbb3/etc, what kind of preventative measures exist for this?
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> http://tds-solutions.net
>>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud
>>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; 
>>> he that dares not reason is a slave.
>>>
>>>
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>> guide we examine the importance of Apache-SSL and who needs an SSL certificate.  We look at how SSL works, how it benefits your company and how your customers can tell if a site is secure. You will find out how to test, purchase, install and use a thawte Digital Certificate on your Apache web server. Throughout, best practices for set-up are highlighted to help you ensure efficient ongoing management of your encryption keys and digital certificates.
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>> 42f727d1
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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