Message-ID: <CAJB2Jzs83CVEF-_mQ3zJZD+9HYJ-GLfmwKoKCgh=ELP4NnCrPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:10:53 +0100
From: Mario Vilas <mvilas@...il.com>
To: "full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk" <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Google vulnerabilities with PoC

But do you have all the required EH certifications? Try this one from the
Institute for
Certified Application Security Specialists: http://www.asscert.com/


On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Nicholas Lemonias. <
lem.nikolas@...glemail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Michal,
>
> We are just trying to improve Google's security and contribute to the
> research community after all. If you are still on EFNet give me a shout
> some time.
>
>  We have done so and consulted to hundreds of clients including Microsoft,
> Nokia, Adobe and some of the world's biggest corporations. We are also
> strict supporters of the ACM code of conduct.
>
> Regards,
> Nicholas Lemonias.
> AISec
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 6:29 AM, Nicholas Lemonias. <
> lem.nikolas@...glemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jerome,
>>
>> Thank you for agreeing on access control, and separation of duties.
>>
>> However successful exploitation permits arbitrary write() of any file of
>> choice.
>>
>> I could release an exploit code in C Sharp or Python that permits
>> multiple file uploads of any file/types, if the Google security team feels
>> that this would be necessary. This is unpaid work, so we are not so keen on
>> that job.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Jerome Athias <athiasjerome@...il.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I concur that we are mainly discussing a terminology problem.
>>>
>>> In the context of a Penetration Test or WAPT, this is a Finding.
>>> Reporting this finding makes sense in this context.
>>>
>>> As a professional, you would have to explain if/how this finding is a
>>> Weakness*, a Violation (/Regulations, Compliance, Policies or
>>> Requirements[1])
>>> * I would say Weakness + Exposure = Vulnerability. Vulnerability +
>>> Exploitability (PoC) = Confirmed Vulnerability that needs Business
>>> Impact and Risk Analysis
>>>
>>> So I would probably have reported this Finding as a Weakness (and not
>>> Vulnerability. See: OWASP, WASC-TC, CWE), explaining that it is not
>>> Best Practice (your OWASP link and Cheat Sheets), and even if
>>> mitigative/compensative security controls (Ref Orange Book), security
>>> controls like white listing (or at least black listing. see also
>>> ESAPI) should be 1) part of the [1]security requirements of a proper
>>> SDLC (Build security in) as per Defense-in-Depth security principles
>>> and 2) used and implemented correctly.
>>> NB: A simple Threat Model (i.e. list of CAPEC) would be a solid
>>> support to your report
>>> This would help to evaluate/measure the risk (e.g. CVSS).
>>> Helping the decision/actions around this risk
>>>
>>> PS: interestingly, in this case, I'm not sure that the Separation of
>>> Duties security principle was applied correctly by Google in term of
>>> Risk Acceptance (which could be another Finding)
>>>
>>> So in few words, be careful with the terminology. (don't always say
>>> vulnerability like the media say hacker, see RFC1392) Use a CWE ID
>>> (e.g. CWE-434, CWE-183, CWE-184 vs. CWE-616)
>>>
>>> My 2 bitcents
>>> Sorry if it is not edible :)
>>> Happy Hacking!
>>>
>>> /JA
>>> https://github.com/athiasjerome/XORCISM
>>>
>>> 2014-03-14 7:19 GMT+03:00 Michal Zalewski <lcamtuf@...edump.cx>:
>>> > Nicholas,
>>> >
>>> > I remember my early years in the infosec community - and sadly, so do
>>> > some of the more seasoned readers of this list :-) Back then, I
>>> > thought that the only thing that mattered is the ability to find bugs.
>>> > But after some 18 years in the industry, I now know that there's an
>>> > even more important and elusive skill.
>>> >
>>> > That skill boils down to having a robust mental model of what
>>> > constitutes a security flaw - and being able to explain your thinking
>>> > to others in a precise and internally consistent manner that convinces
>>> > others to act. We need this because the security of a system can't be
>>> > usefully described using abstract terms: even the academic definitions
>>> > ultimately boil down to saying "the system is secure if it doesn't do
>>> > the things we *really* don't want it to do".
>>> >
>>> > In this spirit, the term "vulnerability" is generally reserved for
>>> > behaviors that meet all of the following criteria:
>>> >
>>> > 1) The behavior must have negative consequences for at least one of
>>> > the legitimate stakeholders (users, service owners, etc),
>>> >
>>> > 2) The consequences must be widely seen as unexpected and unacceptable,
>>> >
>>> > 3) There must be a realistic chance of such a negative outcome,
>>> >
>>> > 4) The behavior must introduce substantial new risks that go beyond
>>> > the previously accepted trade-offs.
>>> >
>>> > If we don't have that, we usually don't have a case, no matter how
>>> > clever the bug is.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers (and happy hunting!),
>>> > /mz
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>



-- 
“There's a reason we separate military and the police: one fights the enemy
of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military
becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”

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