linux-ext4 - Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20080516214516.GA15334@shareable.org>
Date:	Fri, 16 May 2008 22:45:16 +0100
From:	Jamie Lokier <jamie@...reable.org>
To:	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:	Eric Sandeen <sandeen@...hat.com>, linux-ext4@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/4] (RESEND) ext3[34] barrier changes

Andrew Morton wrote:
> > I suppose alternately I could send another patch to remove "remember
> > that ext3/4 by default offers higher data integrity guarantees than
> > most." from Documentation/filesystems/ext4.txt  ;)
> 
> We could add a big scary printk at mount time and provide a document?

Can I suggest making /proc/mounts say "barrier=0" when journal is not
enabled, instead of omitting the option.

Boot logs are too large to pay close attention to unless it's really
obvious.  (2.4 kernels _do_ have a similar message about "data
integrity not guaranteed" with USB drivers - I never understood what
it was getting it, and why it was removed for 2.6).

However, if I saw barrier=0 in /proc/mounts it would at least prompt
me to look it up and then making an informed decision.

Personally I had assumed barriers were enabled by default with ext3,
as some distros do that, the 2.4 patches did that, and:

   I *have* experienced corruption following power loss without
   barriers, and none with barriers.

   When I mentioned that turning off write cache or using barriers is
   a solution to a programmer working on the same project, she said
   "oh, yes, we've had reports of disk corruption too - thanks for the
   advice", and the advice worked, so I am not the only one.

   (In the interests of perspective, that's with ext3 on patched 2.4
   kernels on a ARM device, but still - the barriers seem to work).

On a related note, there is advice floating about the net to run with
IDE write cache turned off if you're running a database and care about
integrity.  That has much worse performance than barriers.

I guess the patch which fixes fsync is particularly useful for those
database users, as it means they can run with write cache enabled and
depend on fsync() to give equivalent integrity now.  (Enabling
journalling is not really relevant to this).

-- Jamie

--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-ext4" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html