linux-ext4 - Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is possible

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Message-ID: <87f94c370908240621n32ea310sd24196084c42107a@mail.gmail.com>
Date:	Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:21:12 -0400
From:	Greg Freemyer <greg.freemyer@...il.com>
To:	Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>
Cc:	Goswin von Brederlow <goswin-v-b@....de>,
	Rob Landley <rob@...dley.net>,
	kernel list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...l.org>, mtk.manpages@...il.com,
	tytso@....edu, rdunlap@...otime.net, linux-doc@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-ext4@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [patch] ext2/3: document conditions when reliable operation is 
	possible

On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 5:31 AM, Pavel Machek<pavel@....cz> wrote:
>
> Running journaling filesystem such as ext3 over flashdisk or degraded
> RAID array is a bad idea: journaling guarantees no longer apply and
> you will get data corruption on powerfail.
>
> We can't solve it easily, but we should certainly warn the users. I
> actually lost data because I did not understand these limitations...
>
> Signed-off-by: Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>
>
> diff --git a/Documentation/filesystems/expectations.txt b/Documentation/filesystems/expectations.txt
> new file mode 100644
> index 0000000..80fa886
> --- /dev/null
> +++ b/Documentation/filesystems/expectations.txt
> @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
> +Linux block-backed filesystems can only work correctly when several
> +conditions are met in the block layer and below (disks, flash
> +cards). Some of them are obvious ("data on media should not change
> +randomly"), some are less so.
> +
> +Write errors not allowed (NO-WRITE-ERRORS)
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> +
> +Writes to media never fail. Even if disk returns error condition
> +during write, filesystems can't handle that correctly.
> +
> +       Fortunately writes failing are very uncommon on traditional
> +       spinning disks, as they have spare sectors they use when write
> +       fails.
> +
> +Don't cause collateral damage to adjacent sectors on a failed write (NO-COLLATERALS)
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> +
> +Unfortunately, cheap USB/SD flash cards I've seen do have this bug,
> +and are thus unsuitable for all filesystems I know.
> +
> +       An inherent problem with using flash as a normal block device
> +       is that the flash erase size is bigger than most filesystem
> +       sector sizes.  So when you request a write, it may erase and
> +       rewrite some 64k, 128k, or even a couple megabytes on the
> +       really _big_ ones.
> +
> +       If you lose power in the middle of that, filesystem won't
> +       notice that data in the "sectors" _around_ the one your were
> +       trying to write to got trashed.
> +
> +       RAID-4/5/6 in degraded mode has same problem.
> +
> +
> +Don't damage the old data on a failed write (ATOMIC-WRITES)
> +~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> +
> +Either whole sector is correctly written or nothing is written during
> +powerfail.
> +
> +       Because RAM tends to fail faster than rest of system during
> +       powerfail, special hw killing DMA transfers may be necessary;
> +       otherwise, disks may write garbage during powerfail.
> +       This may be quite common on generic PC machines.
> +
> +       Note that atomic write is very hard to guarantee for RAID-4/5/6,
> +       because it needs to write both changed data, and parity, to
> +       different disks. (But it will only really show up in degraded mode).
> +       UPS for RAID array should help.

Can someone clarify if this is true in raid-6 with just a single disk
failure?  I don't see why it would be.

And if not can the above text be changed to reflect raid 4/5 with a
single disk failure and raid 6 with a double disk failure are the
modes that have atomicity problems.

Greg
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