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Date:   Mon, 15 Jul 2019 07:03:16 -0700
From:   "Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.ibm.com>
To:     Peter Zijlstra <peterz@...radead.org>
Cc:     "Theodore Ts'o" <tytso@....edu>,
        Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@...gle.com>,
        syzbot <syzbot+4bfbbf28a2e50ab07368@...kaller.appspotmail.com>,
        Andreas Dilger <adilger.kernel@...ger.ca>,
        David Miller <davem@...emloft.net>, eladr@...lanox.com,
        Ido Schimmel <idosch@...lanox.com>,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...lanox.com>,
        John Stultz <john.stultz@...aro.org>,
        linux-ext4@...r.kernel.org, LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        netdev <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        syzkaller-bugs <syzkaller-bugs@...glegroups.com>,
        Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>,
        Ingo Molnar <mingo@...nel.org>
Subject: Re: INFO: rcu detected stall in ext4_write_checks

On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 03:39:38PM +0200, Peter Zijlstra wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 06:01:01AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > Title: Making SCHED_DEADLINE safe for kernel kthreads
> > 
> > Abstract:
> > 
> > Dmitry Vyukov's testing work identified some (ab)uses of sched_setattr()
> > that can result in SCHED_DEADLINE tasks starving RCU's kthreads for
> > extended time periods, not millisecond, not seconds, not minutes, not even
> > hours, but days. Given that RCU CPU stall warnings are issued whenever
> > an RCU grace period fails to complete within a few tens of seconds,
> > the system did not suffer silently. Although one could argue that people
> > should avoid abusing sched_setattr(), people are human and humans make
> > mistakes. Responding to simple mistakes with RCU CPU stall warnings is
> > all well and good, but a more severe case could OOM the system, which
> > is a particularly unhelpful error message.
> > 
> > It would be better if the system were capable of operating reasonably
> > despite such abuse. Several approaches have been suggested.
> > 
> > First, sched_setattr() could recognize parameter settings that put
> > kthreads at risk and refuse to honor those settings. This approach
> > of course requires that we identify precisely what combinations of
> > sched_setattr() parameters settings are risky, especially given that there
> > are likely to be parameter settings that are both risky and highly useful.
> 
> So we (the people poking at the DEADLINE code) are all aware of this,
> and on the TODO list for making DEADLINE available for !priv users is
> the item:
> 
>   - put limits on deadline/period
> 
> And note that that is both an upper and lower limit. The upper limit
> you've just found why we need it, the lower limit is required because
> you can DoS the hardware by causing deadlines/periods that are equal (or
> shorter) than the time it takes to program the hardware.
> 
> There might have even been some patches that do some of this, but I've
> held off because we have bigger problems and they would've established
> an ABI while it wasn't clear it was sufficient or the right form.

So I should withdraw the proposal?

							Thanx, Paul

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