lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  linux-hardening  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:   Thu, 17 Oct 2019 08:08:33 -0400
From:   "Theodore Y. Ts'o" <>
To:     Shuah Khan <>
Cc:     Brendan Higgins <>,
        Iurii Zaikin <>,
        "open list:KERNEL SELFTEST FRAMEWORK" 
        KUnit Development <>
Subject: Re: [PATCH linux-kselftest/test v2] ext4: add kunit test for
 decoding extended timestamps

On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 05:26:29PM -0600, Shuah Khan wrote:
> I don't really buy the argument that unit tests should be deterministic
> Possibly, but I would opt for having the ability to feed test data.

I strongly believe that unit tests should be deterministic.
Non-deterministic tests are essentially fuzz tests.  And fuzz tests
should be different from unit tests.

We want unit tests to run quickly.  Fuzz tests need to be run for a
large number of passes (perhaps hours) in order to be sure that we've
hit any possible bad cases.  We want to be able to easily bisect fuzz
tests --- preferably, automatically.  And any kind of flakey test is
hell to bisect.

It's bad enough when a test is flakey because of the underlying code.
But when a test is flakey because the test inputs are
non-deterministic, it's even worse.

						- Ted

Powered by blists - more mailing lists