linux-hardening - Re: [+externe Mail+] RE: [PATCH] compiler.h: Explain how __is

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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2024 13:56:32 +0000
From: "Uecker, Martin" <Martin.Uecker@....uni-goettingen.de>
To: "keescook@...omium.org" <keescook@...omium.org>,
	"linux@...musvillemoes.dk" <linux@...musvillemoes.dk>,
	"David.Laight@...LAB.COM" <David.Laight@...LAB.COM>
CC: "corbet@....net" <corbet@....net>, "miguel.ojeda.sandonis@...il.com"
	<miguel.ojeda.sandonis@...il.com>, "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org"
	<linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, "linux-doc@...r.kernel.org"
	<linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>, "gustavoars@...nel.org" <gustavoars@...nel.org>,
	"ndesaulniers@...gle.com" <ndesaulniers@...gle.com>,
	"jani.nikula@...ux.intel.com" <jani.nikula@...ux.intel.com>,
	"ojeda@...nel.org" <ojeda@...nel.org>, "linux-hardening@...r.kernel.org"
	<linux-hardening@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [+externe Mail+] RE: [PATCH] compiler.h: Explain how
 __is_constexpr() works

Am Freitag, dem 01.03.2024 um 13:43 +0000 schrieb David Laight:
> From: Uecker, Martin
> > Sent: 01 March 2024 13:22
> > 
> > My suggestion would also to limit explanation. Nobody should
> > write such code and if you need to, you can find explanations
> > all over the internet.
> > 
> > Finally, I still think the motivation for this macro (removing
> > VLAs) is misguided if security is the goal because VLAs provide
> > precise bounds and larger worst-case fixed-size arrays do not.
> > 
> > It would be better to use the compiler options that detect
> > possibly use of VLAs of unbounded size and if there a problems
> > with this, improve this on the compiler side.
> 
> In kernel code (with limited stack) there has to be enough room
> for the largest possible 'VLA' so you might as well allocate one.
> 
> Allowing VLA also makes it pretty much impossible to do any
> kind of static stack use analysis.

If you limit VLAs to a certain maximum size, then you could use
this for analysis and it would not be worse than using worst case
fixed-size array on the stack. But you can also use the *precise*
run-time bound of the VLA if your static analysis is smart enough.
You can also use the precise run-time bound for run-time bounds
checking. It is strictly more expressive to use VLAs (or dependent
types in general) and therefor *good* for static analysis.

> The fine IBT tags can be used identify valid indirect calls
> which pretty much only leaves recursion stopping full static
> stack analysis - and that could be banned except for a few
> limited cases where 1 level could be permittd.
> 
> is_constexpr() has other uses - there are places where
> __builtin_constant_p() isn't strong enough.
> Particularly if you need to use builtin_choose_expr()
> or _Generic() to get select a type.
> 
> For instance, if you can a constant value between 0 and MAXINT
> it is safe to cast to/from unsigned in order change any
> implicit integer promotion cast that may be grief some.

glad to hear it is useful.

Martin

> 
> 	David
> 
> -
> Registered Address Lakeside, Bramley Road, Mount Farm, Milton Keynes, MK1 1PT, UK
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