linux-kernel - Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org regarding reiser4 inclusion

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Message-ID: <44CE97AD.7030300@wolfmountaingroup.com>
Date:	Mon, 31 Jul 2006 17:52:13 -0600
From:	"Jeff V. Merkey" <jmerkey@...fmountaingroup.com>
To:	Nate Diller <nate.diller@...il.com>
CC:	Gregory Maxwell <gmaxwell@...il.com>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Clay Barnes <clay.barnes@...il.com>,
	Rudy Zijlstra <rudy@...ons.demon.nl>,
	Adrian Ulrich <reiser4@...nkenlights.ch>,
	vonbrand@....utfsm.cl, ipso@...ppymail.ca, reiser@...esys.com,
	lkml@...productions.com, jeff@...zik.org, tytso@....edu,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, reiserfs-list@...esys.com
Subject: Re: the " 'official' point of view" expressed by kernelnewbies.org
 regarding reiser4 inclusion

Nate Diller wrote:

> On 7/31/06, Jeff V. Merkey <jmerkey@...fmountaingroup.com> wrote:
>
>> Gregory Maxwell wrote:
>>
>> > On 7/31/06, Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Its well accepted that reiserfs3 has some robustness problems in the
>> >> face of physical media errors. The structure of the file system 
>> and the
>> >> tree basis make it very hard to avoid such problems. XFS appears 
>> to have
>> >> managed to achieve both robustness and better data structures.
>> >>
>> >> How reiser4 compares I've no idea.
>> >
>> >
>> > Citation?
>> >
>> > I ask because your clam differs from the only detailed research that
>> > I'm aware of on the subject[1]. In figure 2 of the iron filesystems
>> > paper that Ext3 is show to ignore a great number of data-loss inducing
>> > failure conditions that Reiser3 detects an panics under.
>> >
>> > Are you sure that you aren't commenting on cases where Reiser3 alerts
>> > the user to a critical data condition (via a panic) which leads to a
>> > trouble report while ext3 ignores the problem which suppresses the
>> > trouble report from the user?
>> >
>> > *1) http://www.cs.wisc.edu/adsl/Publications/iron-sosp05.pdf
>>
>> Hi Gregory, Wikimedia Foundation and LKML?
>>
>> How's Wikimania going. :-)
>>
>> What he says is correct.  I have seen some serious issues with reiserfs
>> in terms of stability and
>> data corruption.  Resier is however FASTER, but the statement is has
>> robustness issues is accurate.
>> I was using reiserfs but we opted to make EXT3 the default for Solera
>> appliances, even when using Suse 10
>> due to issues I have seen with data corruption and hard hangs on RAID 0
>> read/write sector errors.  I have
>> stopped using it for local drives and based everything on EXT3.  Not to
>> say it won't get there eventually, but
>> file systems have to endure a lot of time in the field and deployment
>> befor they are ready for prime time.
>>
>> The Wikimedia appliances use Wolf Mountain, and I've tested it for about
>> 4 months with few problems, but
>> I only use it for hosting the Cherokee Langauge Wikipedia.  It's
>> performance is several magnitudes better
>> than either EXT3 or ReiserFS.  Despite this, for vertical wiki servers,
>> its ok to go out with, folks can specifiy
>> whether they want appliances with EXT3, Reiser, or WMFS, but iit's a
>> long way from being "cooked"
>> completely, though it does scale to 1 exabyte FS images.
>
>
> i've seen you mention the Wolf Mountain FS in other emails, but google
> isn't telling me a lot about it.  Do you have a whitepaper?  are there
> any published benchmark results?  what sort of workloads do you
> benchmark?
>
> NATE
>
Wikipedia is the app for now.  I have not done any benchmarks on the FS 
side, just the capture side, and its been transferred to
another entity.  I have no idea what they are naming it to, but I expect 
you may hear about it soon.  One of the incarnations
of it is Solera's DSFS which can be reviewed here:

www.soleranetworks.com

I can sustain 850 MB/S throughput from user space with it -- about 5 x 
any other FS.  On some hardware, I've broken
the 1.25 GB/S (gigabyte/second) windows with it.

Jeff
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