linux-kernel - Re: Finding hardlinks

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Date:	Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:42:11 +0100
From:	Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>
To:	Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...redi.hu>
Cc:	bhalevy@...asas.com, arjan@...radead.org,
	mikulas@...ax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz, jaharkes@...cmu.edu,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
	nfsv4@...f.org
Subject: Re: Finding hardlinks

Hi!

> > > > > the use of a good hash function.  The chance of an accidental
> > > > > collision is infinitesimally small.  For a set of 
> > > > > 
> > > > >          100 files: 0.00000000000003%
> > > > >    1,000,000 files: 0.000003%
> > > > 
> > > > I do not think we want to play with probability like this. I mean...
> > > > imagine 4G files, 1KB each. That's 4TB disk space, not _completely_
> > > > unreasonable, and collision probability is going to be ~100% due to
> > > > birthday paradox.
> > > > 
> > > > You'll still want to back up your 4TB server...
> > > 
> > > Certainly, but tar isn't going to remember all the inode numbers.
> > > Even if you solve the storage requirements (not impossible) it would
> > > have to do (4e9^2)/2=8e18 comparisons, which computers don't have
> > > enough CPU power just yet.
> > 
> > Storage requirements would be 16GB of RAM... that's small enough. If
> > you sort, you'll only need 32*2^32 comparisons, and that's doable.
> > 
> > I do not claim it is _likely_. You'd need hardlinks, as you
> > noticed. But system should work, not "work with high probability", and
> > I believe we should solve this in long term.
> 
> High probability is all you have.  Cosmic radiation hitting your
> computer will more likly cause problems, than colliding 64bit inode
> numbers ;)

As I have shown... no, that's not right. 32*2^32 operations is small
enough not to have problems with cosmic radiation.

> But you could add a new interface for the extra paranoid.  The
> proposed 'samefile(fd1, fd2)' syscall is severly limited by the heavy
> weight of file descriptors.

I guess that is the way to go. samefile(path1, path2) is unfortunately
inherently racy.

> Another idea is to export the filesystem internal ID as an arbitray
> length cookie through the extended attribute interface.  That could be
> stored/compared by the filesystem quite efficiently.

How will that work for FAT?

Or maybe we can relax that "inode may not change over rename" and
"zero length files need unique inode numbers"...

								Pavel

-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/