Message-Id: <E1Hawf4-0000E7-00@dorka.pomaz.szeredi.hu>
Date:	Mon, 09 Apr 2007 18:24:10 +0200
From:	Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...redi.hu>
To:	serue@...ibm.com
CC:	akpm@...ux-foundation.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
	containers@...ts.osdl.org, util-linux-ng@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [patch 0/8] unprivileged mount syscall

> > > > One thing that is missing from this series is the ability to restrict
> > > > user mounts to private namespaces.  The reason is that private
> > > > namespaces have still not gained the momentum and support needed for
> > > > painless user experience.  So such a feature would not yet get enough
> > > > attention and testing.  However adding such an optional restriction
> > > > can be done with minimal changes in the future, once private
> > > > namespaces have matured.
> > > 
> > > I suspect the people who developed and maintain nsproxy would disagree ;)
> > 
> > Well, they better show me some working and simple-to-use userspace
> > code, because I've not seen anything like that related to mount
> > namespaces.
> 
> If you mean to test/exploit them, see
> http://lxc.sourceforge.net/patches/2.6.20/2.6.20-lxc8/broken-out/tests/
> 
> Compile the ns_exec.c program and do
> 
> 	ns_exec -m /bin/sh
> 
> to get a shell in a new mounts namespace.

Cool, thanks.  This is a very nice utility for testing, but for the
end user rather useless:

  - user starts up a private namespace in a shell, mounts something

  - then opens app from menu, tries to access mount, but the mount is
    not there

  - user unhappy

BTW, looking at -mm unshare() on namespace is not privileged any more.
Why is that?  Or rather, what's the reason, that clone() is privileged
and unshare() is not?

> > pam_namespace.so is one example of a non-working, but probably-not-too-
> > hard-to-fix one.
> 
> Non-working?  I sure hope the one used for LSPP certification is
> working...  As is the ugly version I wrote 18 mounts ago and use on my
> laptop.

The one in pam-0.99.6.3-29.1 in opensuse-10.2 is totally broken.  Are
you interested in the details?  I can reproduce it, but forgot to note
down the details of the brokenness.

> > I'm just saying this is not yet something that Joe Blow would just
> > enable by ticking a box in their desktop setup wizard, and it would
> > all work flawlessly thereafter.  There's still a _long_ way towards
> > that, and mostly in userspace.
> 
> I'm not sure there's a that long a way to go, but clearly we need to be
> showing users what they can do, or they'll never work their way towards
> there.

There _is_ a long way to go.  Random things that spring to my mind:

 - using /etc/mtab is broken with private namespaces, using
   /proc/mounts is missing various functionality, that /etc/mtab has,
   for example the "user" option, which this patchset adds

 - need to set up mount propagation from global namespace to private
   ones, mount(8) does not yet have options to configure propagation

 - user namespace setup: what if user has multiple sessions?

   1) namespaces are shared?  That's tricky because the session needs to
   be a child of a namespace server, not of login.  I'm not sure PAM
   can handle this

   2) or mounts are copied on login?  That's not possible currently,
   as there's no way to send a mount between namespaces.  Also it's
   tricky to make sure that new mounts are also shared

> For instance, as you say, a user admin gui with a checkmark and text
> boxes saying 'enter new namespace on login', 'create private /tmp',
> and 'create private dmcrypted /home' would be trivial right now.

Trivial modulo the above slightly non-trivial exemptions ;)

Miklos
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