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Message-ID: <20070501105239.GA13539@1wt.eu> Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 12:52:39 +0200 From: Willy Tarreau <w@....eu> To: Gabriel C <nix.or.die@...glemail.com> Cc: "Robert P. J. Day" <rpjday@...dspring.com>, Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-mm@...ck.org, linux-pcmcia@...ts.infradead.org Subject: Re: pcmcia ioctl removal On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 12:26:48PM +0200, Gabriel C wrote: > Willy Tarreau wrote: > >On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 05:16:13AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > >>On Tue, 1 May 2007, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > >> > >> > >>>> pcmcia-delete-obsolete-pcmcia_ioctl-feature.patch > >>>> > >>>... > >>> > >>> > >>>>Dominik is busy. Will probably re-review and send these direct to > >>>>Linus. > >>>> > >>>The patch above is the removal of cardmgr support. While I'd love > >>>to see this cruft gone it definitively needs maintainer judgement on > >>>whether they time has come that no one relies on cardmgr anymore. > >>> > >>since i was the one who submitted the original patch to remove that > >>stuff, let me make an observation. > >> > >>when i submitted a patch to remove, for instance, the traffic shaper > >>since it's clearly obsolete, i was told -- in no uncertain terms -- > >>that that couldn't be done since there had been no warning about its > >>impending removal. > >> > >>fair enough, i can accept that. > >> > >>on the other hand, the features removal file contains the following: > >> > >>... > >>What: PCMCIA control ioctl (needed for pcmcia-cs [cardmgr, cardctl]) > >>When: November 2005 > >>... > >> > >>in other words, the PCMCIA ioctl feature *has* been listed as obsolete > >>for quite some time, and is already a *year and a half* overdue for > >>removal. > >> > >>in short, it's annoying to take the position that stuff can't be > >>deleted without warning, then turn around and be reluctant to remove > >>stuff for which *more than ample warning* has already been given. > >>doing that just makes a joke of the features removal file, and makes > >>you wonder what its purpose is in the first place. > >> > >>a little consistency would be nice here, don't you think? > >> > > > >No, it just shows how useless this file is. What is needed is a big > >warning during usage, not a file that nobody reads. Facts are : > > > > - 90% of people here do not even know that this file exists > > - 80% of the people who know about it do not consult it on a regular > > basis > > - 80% of those who consult it on a regular basis are not concerned > > - 75% of statistics are invented > > > >=> only 20% of 20% of 10% of those who read LKML know that one feature > > they are concerned about will soon be removed = 0.4% of LKML readers. > > > >If you put a warning in kernel messages (as I've seen for a long time > >about tcpdump using obsolete AF_PACKET), close to 100% of the users > >of the obsolete code who are likely to change their kernels will notice > >it. > > > > > > Hmm ? There is already a fat warning in dmesg for a long time now. > > > snip > > ... > > pcmcia: Detected deprecated PCMCIA ioctl usage from process: discover. > pcmcia: This interface will soon be removed from the kernel; please > expect breakage unless you upgrade to new tools. > pcmcia: see > http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/pcmcia/pcmcia.html for details. > > ... Oh you're terribly right ! I have grepped my logs and found it lying there too in the middle of the memory probe messages and the IO probe ones. I never noticed it. I know it's my fault, but I think that "fat warning" is not really what could characterize it though, because of the context verbose around it : pcmcia: parent PCI bridge Memory window: 0x90000000 - 0x903fffff pcmcia: parent PCI bridge Memory window: 0x30000000 - 0x3dffffff pccard: PCMCIA card inserted into slot 0 cs: memory probe 0x90000000-0x903fffff: excluding 0x90000000-0x9003ffff 0x90080000-0x900bffff 0x90100000-0x9013ffff 0x90180000-0x901bffff 0x90200000-0x9023ffff 0x90280000-0x902bffff 0x90300000-0x9033ffff 0x90380000-0x903bffff pcmcia: registering new device pcmcia0.0 pcmcia: Detected deprecated PCMCIA ioctl usage from process: cardmgr. pcmcia: This interface will soon be removed from the kernel; please expect breakage unless you upgrade to new tools. pcmcia: see http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/pcmcia/pcmcia.html for details. cs: IO port probe 0xc00-0xcff: clean. cs: IO port probe 0x820-0x8ff: clean. cs: IO port probe 0x800-0x80f: clean. cs: IO port probe 0x3e0-0x4ff: clean. cs: IO port probe 0x100-0x3af: excluding 0x140-0x14f 0x378-0x37f cs: IO port probe 0xa00-0xaff: clean. Now I have the URL for the details ;-) BTW, I thing we should standardize on some formating to display messages about deprecated/obsolete code. Maybe something like this would be more noticeable : cs: memory probe 0x90000000-0x903fffff: excluding 0x90000000-0x9003ffff 0x90080000-0x900bffff 0x90100000-0x9013ffff 0x90180000-0x901bffff 0x90200000-0x9023ffff 0x90280000-0x902bffff 0x90300000-0x9033ffff 0x90380000-0x903bffff pcmcia: registering new device pcmcia0.0 WARNING !!! Detected DEPRECATED PCMCIA ioctl usage from process: cardmgr. WARNING !!! This process may stop working past November 2005. WARNING !!! see http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/pcmcia/pcmcia.html for details. cs: IO port probe 0xc00-0xcff: clean. Regards, Willy - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
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