linux-kernel - Re: Syslets, Threadlets, generic AIO support, v6

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Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0705301148150.6272@alien.or.mcafeemobile.com>
Date:	Wed, 30 May 2007 12:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
From:	Davide Libenzi <davidel@...ilserver.org>
To:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>
cc:	Ulrich Drepper <drepper@...hat.com>, Jeff Garzik <jeff@...zik.org>,
	Zach Brown <zach.brown@...cle.com>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...radead.org>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@....com.au>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Evgeniy Polyakov <johnpol@....mipt.ru>,
	"David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
	Suparna Bhattacharya <suparna@...ibm.com>,
	Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@...cle.com>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@...utronix.de>
Subject: Re: Syslets, Threadlets, generic AIO support, v6

On Wed, 30 May 2007, Ingo Molnar wrote:

> yeah - this is a fundamental design question for Linus i guess :-) glibc 
> (and other infrastructure libraries) have a fundamental problem: they 
> cannot (and do not) presently use persistent file descriptors to make 
> use of kernel functionality, due to ABI side-effects. [applications can 
> dup into an fd used by glibc, applications can close it - shells close 
> fds blindly for example, etc.] Today glibc simply cannot open a file 
> descriptor and keep it open while application code is running due to 
> these problems.

Here I think we are forgetting that glibc is userspace and there's no 
separation between the application code and glibc code. An application 
linking to glibc can break glibc in thousand ways, indipendently from fds 
or not fds. Like complaining that glibc is broken because printf() 
suddendly does not work anymore ;)

#include <stdio.h>
int main(void) {
        close(fileno(stdout));
        printf("Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?\n");
        return 0;
}



- Davide


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