linux-kernel - Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3

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Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0706171157400.14121@woody.linux-foundation.org>
Date:	Sun, 17 Jun 2007 12:14:46 -0700 (PDT)
From:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To:	Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@...hat.com>
cc:	Al Viro <viro@....linux.org.uk>,
	Bernd Schmidt <bernds_cb1@...nline.de>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
	Daniel Hazelton <dhazelton@...er.net>,
	Greg KH <greg@...ah.com>,
	debian developer <debiandev@...il.com>, david@...g.hm,
	Tarkan Erimer <tarkan@...one.net.tr>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3

On Sun, 17 Jun 2007, Alexandre Oliva wrote:
> 
> > What I care about is that the GPLv3 is a _worse_license_ than GPLv2,
> 
> Even though anti-tivoization furthers the quid-pro-quo spirit that you
> love about v2, and anti-tivoization is your only objection to v3?

You apparently do not understand "quid-pro-quo".

Another way of stating it might be "same for same".

A third way of stating it is "software for software". No, the romans never 
said that, but I just did, to make it just more obvious that the whole 
point is that you are expected to answer IN KIND!

I do *not* ask for hardware access.

I do *not* ask for money.

	And the reason I'm harping on "money" is that "money" is something 
	*different* from what I give out. I give out software. I don't 
	expect money in return.

	Money is *irrelevant*. It's allowed (and certainly much 
	appreciated), but it's not required.

See? Can you agree with that? Can you agree that that is actually part of 
what the whole "open source" spirit is all about (I'll avoid the word 
"free software", since you have defined it so rigorously personally that 
it makes no sense any more).

Now, replace "money" with "access to the hardware", and read the exact 
*same* sentences again:

	And the reason I'm harping on "access to hardware" is that "access 
	to hardware" is something *different* from what I give out. I give 
	out software. I don't expect access to hardware in return.

	Access to hardware is *irrelevant*. It's allowed (and certainly 
	much appreciated), but it's not required.

See? 

Exact same words. Exact same spirit. Just using "access to hardware" 
instead of "money".

You have been showing that you have a really hard time understanding that 
very *simple* argument.

> > I'd be stupid to select the worse of two licenses, wouldn't I?
> 
> Yes.  That's precisely why I don't understand your stance.

If you don't understand it after the above, I really can only say:

	"You are either terminally stupid, or you're not allowing yourself 
	 to see an obvious argument, because it destroys your world-view".

The latter is very possible. It's a very human thing. It's why apparently 
a lot of people in the US have a hard time believing in evolution. Are 
they terminally stupid? Yeah, that is quite possible. But it is also 
possible that they are of average intelligence, and they just cannot 
mentally _afford_ to follow the argument - it destroys the silyl stories 
they heard as children, and requires them to think too hard about the 
veracity of the source.

		Linus

PS. Since some people talked about the game theory aspects of 
"tit-for-tat", I'd like to point out that what is usually considered an 
even *better* strategy than "tit-for-tat" is actually "tit-for-tat with 
forgiveness".

In particular, "tit-for-tat with forgiveness" is considered better when 
there is ambiguity (like "communication difficulties" - does that sound 
familiar?) in the encouter. You allow some leeway, and don't always 
retaliate!

So the FSF is DOING THE WRONG THING! They are turning "tit-for-tat" not 
into "tit-for-tat with forgiveness", but into "tit-for-tat with preemptive 
strikes".

That is a *LOSING* strategy in game theory. So a game theorist could very 
well argue with good reason to believe he is right that the GPLv3 is 
actually a worse license even from a purely theoretical standpoint!
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