linux-kernel - Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3

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Date:	Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:39:16 -0700 (PDT)
From:	david@...g.hm
To:	Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@...hat.com>
cc:	Daniel Hazelton <dhazelton@...er.net>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Al Viro <viro@....linux.org.uk>,
	Bernd Schmidt <bernds_cb1@...nline.de>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>, Greg KH <greg@...ah.com>,
	debian developer <debiandev@...il.com>,
	Tarkan Erimer <tarkan@...one.net.tr>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007, Alexandre Oliva wrote:

> On Jun 19, 2007, david@...g.hm wrote:
>
>> based on my experiance looking at the software released for tivos, I
>> think you are over-estimating these numbers. if there are more then a
>> dozen people producing things that are good enough to be useful and
>> releasing their results as opensource software I would be surprised.
>
> Yup.
>
> And how many more would there be should it not be tivoized?  More
> hackers would buy the devices, a number of them with the explicit
> intent and interest in modifying the software in it.
>
> You're losing all that.

based on the knowledge shown by these users you aren't loosing much.

remember, not all tivo models are locked down, and most of those that are 
locked down can be unlocked pretty easily. it's only a couple models that 
have required a soldering iron.

the xbox hacks show that people will produce ways to bypass hardware 
restrictions that are easy for less techinical people to use (and people 
less technical then this aren't gong to be contributing code anyway)

as a result of watching the hacker groups I can safely say that the 
lockdown has not blocked many users. it has slowed modification of the 
hacks to new types of hardware, but not for very long.

>> and for all that the FSF is claiming that tivos can't being modified
>> it's really not that hard to change.
>
> But is it legal?

that depends on what lawyer you ask, and what they think of the 
applicability of the DMCA.

> How many would contribute changes to a list where there are TiVo
> people watching, which might expose these contributors to liabilities?

in the case of Tivo, there are many public boards that talk about hacking 
tivos, and tivo employees login and contribute to them. just about all of 
these boards ban specific topics. for example:

getting service without paying for it is banned on every board I 
personally look at

transferring video off of the tivo is banned on some boards, but not on 
others.

David Lang
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