linux-kernel - Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.0.98.0706211325540.3593@woody.linux-foundation.org>
Date:	Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:36:09 -0700 (PDT)
From:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
To:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>
cc:	Chuck Ebbert <cebbert@...hat.com>, Jarek Poplawski <jarkao2@...pl>,
	Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...redi.hu>, chris@...ee.ca,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, tglx@...utronix.de,
	akpm@...ux-foundation.org
Subject: Re: [BUG] long freezes on thinkpad t60

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007, Ingo Molnar wrote:
> 
> yeah. I think Linux is i think the only OS on the planet that is using 
> the movb trick for unlock, it even triggered a hardware erratum ;)

I'm pretty sure others do it too.

Maybe not on an OS level (but I actually doubt that - I'd be surprised if 
Windows doesn't do the exact same thing), but I know for a fact that a lot 
of people in threaded libraries end up depending very much on the "simple 
store closes a locked section".

Just googling for "xchg" "mov" "spinlock" "-linux" shows discussion boards 
for Windows developers with open-coded spinlocks like

	int ResourceFlag = 0; // 0=Free, 1=Inuse
	...
	// Wait until we get the resource
	while(InterlockedExchange(&ResourceFlag, 1) != 0) {
	   Sleep(0); } // Wait a tad
	// Have the resource
	... // do your thing
	ResourceFlag = 0; // Release the resource

and that's definitely Windows code, not some Linux person doing it.

And this is from an OS2 forum

	unsigned owned=0;

	void request() {
	  while(LockedExchanged(&owned,1)!=0)
	    ;
	}

	void release() {
	  owned = 0;
	}

so it's not even something unusual.

So while arguably these people don't know (and don't care) about subtle 
issues like memory ordering, I can *guarantee* that a lot of programs 
depend on them, even if that dependency may often come from a lack of 
knowledge, rather than actively understanding what we do like in the Linux 
kernel community.

(And yes, they rely on compilers not reordering either. Tough.)

		Linus
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/