linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH try #2] security: Convert LSM into a static interface

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Date:	Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:06:44 -0500
From:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@...ibm.com>
To:	Adrian Bunk <bunk@...sta.de>
Cc:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serge@...lyn.com>,
	James Morris <jmorris@...ei.org>,
	Andreas Gruenbacher <agruen@...e.de>,
	Chris Wright <chrisw@...s-sol.org>,
	linux-security-module@...r.kernel.org,
	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@...ibm.com>,
	Andrew Morgan <agm@...gle.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...gle.com>,
	Stephen Smalley <sds@...ho.nsa.gov>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...radead.org>,
	Greg KH <greg@...ah.com>, Eric Paris <eparis@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH try #2] security: Convert LSM into a static interface

Quoting Adrian Bunk (bunk@...sta.de):
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2007 at 10:57:31PM -0500, Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> > Quoting James Morris (jmorris@...ei.org):
> > > On Mon, 25 Jun 2007, Andreas Gruenbacher wrote:
> > > 
> > > > It's useful for some LSMs to be modular, and LSMs which are y/n options won't 
> > > > have any security architecture issues with unloading at all. 
> > > 
> > > Which LSMs?  Upstream, there are SELinux and capabilty, and they're not 
> > > safe as loadable modules.
> > > 
> > > > The mere fact 
> > > > that SELinux cannot be built as a module is a rather weak argument for 
> > > > disabling LSM modules as a whole, so  please don't.
> > > 
> > > That's not the argument.  Please review the thread.
> > 
> > The argument is 'abuse', right?
> > 
> > Abuse is defined as using the LSM hooks for non-security applications,
> > right?
> > 
> > It seems to me that the community is doing a good job of discouraging
> > such abuse - by redirecting the "wrong-doers" to implement proper
> > upstream solutions, i.e. taskstats, the audit subsystem, etc.
> > 
> > Such encouragement seems a far better response than taking away freedoms
> > and flexibility from everyone.
> 
> We are not living in a world where everyone had good intentions...

Oh no, i took a wrong turn somewhere  :)

> For _some_ "wrong-doers" your approach works.
> 
> But how do you convince the "wrong-doers" who do things like putting 
> MODULE_LICENSE("GPL") into their binary-only modules and who ignore you 
> and get away because noone sues them?

Do these really exist?  Maybe noone sues them because noone knows who
they are...

But - note that you've changed completely the meaning of 'abuse'.
So mine was wrong?

> The spirit of the GPLv2 is to defend the freedom of the software 
> (different from the spirit of the BSD licence), and considering that 
> there aren't many people defending the GPLv2 copyright of the Linux 
> kernel at court against abusers, making it harder for people to do the 
> abuse might not be the worst choice...

Well, but you seem to be saying that the license means squat, and
resorting to making things inconvenient rather than illegal.

Now I guess if it really is accepted that that's the way it should be,
then this patch will go in.

-serge
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