linux-kernel - Re: [linux-pm] Re: Hibernation considerations

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-Id: <200707231311.56398.nigel@nigel.suspend2.net>
Date:	Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:11:53 +1000
From:	Nigel Cunningham <nigel@...el.suspend2.net>
To:	Paul Mackerras <paulus@...ba.org>
Cc:	Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>, david@...g.hm,
	Miklos Szeredi <miklos@...redi.hu>, nigel@...pend2.net,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, miltonm@....com,
	ying.huang@...el.com, linux-pm@...ts.linux-foundation.org,
	Jeremy Maitin-Shepard <jbms@....edu>
Subject: Re: [linux-pm] Re: Hibernation considerations

Hi.

On Monday 23 July 2007 10:04:43 Paul Mackerras wrote:
> Nigel Cunningham writes:
> 
> > I guess I want to persist because all of these issues aren't utterly
> > unsolvable. It's just that we don't have the infrastructure yet to
> > figure out the solutions to these issues trivially. Take, for example,
> 
> Ever heard of the halting problem? :)  It's not just a matter of
> infrastructure.  You very quickly get into questions that are
> mathematically undecideable.

Is this the halting problem, though?

> > the locking issue. If we could call some function to say "What process
> > holds this lock?", then task A could know that it's waiting on task B
> > and put that information somewhere. We could then use the information
> > to freeze task B before task A.
> 
> But how would that help?  If task B holds the lock, then we can't
> freeze it until it's released the lock.  Then the question is, what
> does task B need in order to get to the point where it releases the
> lock?  And so on.  It rapidly gets not just extremely messy, but
> actually impossible to compute in general.

Take a step back for a second.

The problem we're facing now is that we're getting some userspace threads, 
used in processing I/O, that are functioning as exceptions to the "freeze 
userspace, then freezeable kernel threads" rule. They are only exceptions 
because of that role in processing I/O - because they're de facto kernel 
threads. So, if we orient our thinking more in terms of I/O processing and 
less in terms of the userspace/kernelspace distinction, we'll have a 
solution:

1) Freeze processes that aren't fs related (ie stop them generating I/O).
2) Flush pending I/O.
3) Freeze filesystems in reverse order of dependency, the primary purpose 
being to stop them generating further I/O on their metadata.

Locks that are being held are only being held because work is being done. If 
we progressively focus on threads in terms of their create/process work 
dependencies, we'll see that the problem isn't at all intractable.

Regards,

Nigel
-- 
See http://www.tuxonice.net for Howtos, FAQs, mailing
lists, wiki and bugzilla info.

Content of type "application/pgp-signature" skipped