linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 0/24] make atomic_read() behave consistently across all architectures

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20070817051811.GB12232@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Date:	Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:18:11 -0700
From:	"Paul E. McKenney" <paulmck@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:	Paul Mackerras <paulus@...ba.org>,
	Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@...oo.com.au>,
	Segher Boessenkool <segher@...nel.crashing.org>,
	heiko.carstens@...ibm.com, horms@...ge.net.au,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, rpjday@...dspring.com, ak@...e.de,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org, cfriesen@...tel.com,
	akpm@...ux-foundation.org, jesper.juhl@...il.com,
	linux-arch@...r.kernel.org, zlynx@....org, satyam@...radead.org,
	clameter@....com, schwidefsky@...ibm.com,
	Chris Snook <csnook@...hat.com>,
	Herbert Xu <herbert.xu@...hat.com>, davem@...emloft.net,
	wensong@...ux-vs.org, wjiang@...ilience.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/24] make atomic_read() behave consistently across all architectures

On Thu, Aug 16, 2007 at 08:42:23PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> 
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Paul Mackerras wrote:
> > 
> > I'm really surprised it's as much as a few K.  I tried it on powerpc
> > and it only saved 40 bytes (10 instructions) for a G5 config.
> 
> One of the things that "volatile" generally screws up is a simple
> 
> 	volatile int i;
> 
> 	i++;
> 
> which a compiler will generally get horribly, horribly wrong.
> 
> In a reasonable world, gcc should just make that be (on x86)
> 
> 	addl $1,i(%rip)
> 
> on x86-64, which is indeed what it does without the volatile. But with the 
> volatile, the compiler gets really nervous, and doesn't dare do it in one 
> instruction, and thus generates crap like
> 
>         movl    i(%rip), %eax
>         addl    $1, %eax
>         movl    %eax, i(%rip)

Blech.  Sounds like a chat with some gcc people is in order.  Will
see what I can do.

						Thanx, Paul

> instead. For no good reason, except that "volatile" just doesn't have any 
> good/clear semantics for the compiler, so most compilers will just make it 
> be "I will not touch this access in any way, shape, or form". Including 
> even trivially correct instruction optimization/combination.
> 
> This is one of the reasons why we should never use "volatile". It 
> pessimises code generation for no good reason - just because compilers 
> don't know what the heck it even means! 
> 
> Now, people don't do "i++" on atomics (you'd use "atomic_inc()" for that), 
> but people *do* do things like
> 
> 	if (atomic_read(..) <= 1)
> 		..
> 
> On ppc, things like that probably don't much matter. But on x86, it makes 
> a *huge* difference whether you do
> 
> 	movl i(%rip),%eax
> 	cmpl $1,%eax
> 
> or if you can just use the value directly for the operation, like this:
> 
> 	cmpl $1,i(%rip)
> 
> which is again a totally obvious and totally safe optimization, but is 
> (again) something that gcc doesn't dare do, since "i" is volatile.
> 
> In other words: "volatile" is a horribly horribly bad way of doing things, 
> because it generates *worse*code*, for no good reason. You just don't see 
> it on powerpc, because it's already a load-store architecture, so there is 
> no "good code" for doing direct-to-memory operations.
> 
> 		Linus
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe netdev" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/