linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 0/6] writeback time order/delay fixes take 3

lists.openwall.net		lists / announce owl-users owl-dev john-users john-dev passwdqc-users yescrypt popa3d-users / oss-security kernel-hardening musl sabotage tlsify passwords / crypt-dev xvendor / Bugtraq Full-Disclosure linux-kernel linux-netdev linux-ext4 linux-hardening linux-cve-announce PHC
Open Source and information security mailing list archives

Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.

[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [day] [month] [year] [list]

Message-ID: <20070829075330.GA5960@mail.ustc.edu.cn>
Date:	Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:53:30 +0800
From:	Fengguang Wu <wfg@...l.ustc.edu.cn>
To:	David Chinner <dgc@....com>
Cc:	Chris Mason <chris.mason@...cle.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...l.org>, Ken Chen <kenchen@...gle.com>,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org,
	Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@...cle.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/6] writeback time order/delay fixes take 3

On Wed, Aug 29, 2007 at 02:33:08AM +1000, David Chinner wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2007 at 11:08:20AM -0400, Chris Mason wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 00:55:30 +1000
> > David Chinner <dgc@....com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, Aug 24, 2007 at 09:55:04PM +0800, Fengguang Wu wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Aug 23, 2007 at 12:33:06PM +1000, David Chinner wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2007 at 09:18:41AM +0800, Fengguang Wu wrote:
> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2007 at 08:23:14PM -0400, Chris Mason wrote:
> > > > > > Notes:
> > > > > > (1) I'm not sure inode number is correlated to disk location in
> > > > > >     filesystems other than ext2/3/4. Or parent dir?
> > > > > 
> > > > > The correspond to the exact location on disk on XFS. But, XFS has
> > > > > it's own inode clustering (see xfs_iflush) and it can't be moved
> > > > > up into the generic layers because of locking and integration into
> > > > > the transaction subsystem.
> > > > >
> > > > > > (2) It duplicates some function of elevators. Why is it
> > > > > > necessary?
> > > > > 
> > > > > The elevators have no clue as to how the filesystem might treat
> > > > > adjacent inodes. In XFS, inode clustering is a fundamental
> > > > > feature of the inode reading and writing and that is something no
> > > > > elevator can hope to acheive....
> > > >  
> > > > Thank you. That explains the linear write curve(perfect!) in Chris'
> > > > graph.
> > > > 
> > > > I wonder if XFS can benefit any more from the general writeback
> > > > clustering. How large would be a typical XFS cluster?
> > > 
> > > Depends on inode size. typically they are 8k in size, so anything
> > > from 4-32 inodes. The inode writeback clustering is pretty tightly
> > > integrated into the transaction subsystem and has some intricate
> > > locking, so it's not likely to be easy (or perhaps even possible) to
> > > make it more generic.
> > 
> > When I talked to hch about this, he said the order file data pages got
> > written in XFS was still dictated by the order the higher layers sent
> > things down.
> 
> Sure, that's file data. I was talking about the inode writeback, not the
> data writeback.
> 
> > Shouldn't the clustering still help to have delalloc done
> > in inode order instead of in whatever random order pdflush sends things
> > down now?
> 
> Depends on how things are being allocated. if you've got inode32 allocation
> and >1TB filesytsem, then data is nowhere near the inodes. If you've got large
> allocation groups, then data is typically nowhere near the inodes, either. If
> you've got full AGs, data will be nowehere near the inodes. If you've got
> large files and lots of data to write, then clustering multiple files together
> for writing is not needed.  So in many cases, clustering delalloc writes by
> inode number doesn't provide any better I/o patterns than not clustering...
> 
> The only difference we may see is that if we flush all the data on inodes
> in a single cluster, we can get away with a single inode cluster write
> for all of the inodes....

So we end up with two major cases:

- small files: inode and its data are expected to be close enough,
  hence it can help I_DIRTY_SYNC and/or I_DIRTY_PAGES

- big files: inode and its data may or may not be separated
        - I_DIRTY_SYNC:  could be improved
        - I_DIRTY_PAGES: no better, no worse(it's big I/O, the seek
          cost is not relevant in any case)

Conclusion: _inode_ writeback clustering is enough.

Isn't it simple? ;-)

Fengguang

-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/