Message-Id: <200709121201.08706.nickpiggin@yahoo.com.au>
Date:	Wed, 12 Sep 2007 12:01:08 +1000
From:	Nick Piggin <nickpiggin@...oo.com.au>
To:	David Chinner <dgc@....com>
Cc:	Mel Gorman <mel@...net.ie>, Christoph Lameter <clameter@....com>,
	andrea@...e.de, torvalds@...ux-foundation.org,
	linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@....de>,
	William Lee Irwin III <wli@...omorphy.com>,
	Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@...cle.com>,
	Badari Pulavarty <pbadari@...il.com>,
	Maxim Levitsky <maximlevitsky@...il.com>,
	Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@...il.com>,
	swin wang <wangswin@...il.com>, totty.lu@...il.com,
	hugh@...itas.com, joern@...ybastard.org
Subject: Re: [00/41] Large Blocksize Support V7 (adds memmap support)

On Wednesday 12 September 2007 11:49, David Chinner wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2007 at 04:00:17PM +1000, Nick Piggin wrote:
> > > > OTOH, I'm not sure how much buy-in there was from the filesystems
> > > > guys. Particularly Christoph H and XFS (which is strange because they
> > > > already do vmapping in places).
> > >
> > > I think they use vmapping because they have to, not because they want
> > > to. They might be a lot happier with fsblock if it used contiguous
> > > pages for large blocks whenever possible - I don't know for sure. The
> > > metadata accessors they might be unhappy with because it's inconvenient
> > > but as Christoph Hellwig pointed out at VM/FS, the filesystems who
> > > really care will convert.
> >
> > Sure, they would rather not to. But there are also a lot of ways you can
> > improve vmap more than what XFS does (or probably what darwin does)
> > (more persistence for cached objects, and batched invalidates for
> > example).
>
> XFS already has persistence across the object life time (which can be many
> tens of seconds for a frequently used buffer)

But you don't do a very good job. When you go above 64 vmaps cached, you
purge _all_ of them. fsblock's vmap cache can have a much higher number
(if you want), and purging will only unmap a smaller batch, decided by a
simple LRU.


> and it also does batched 
> unmapping of objects as well.

It also could do a lot better at unmapping. Currently you're just calling
vunmap a lot of times in sequence. That still requires global IPIs and TLB
flushing every time.

This simple patch should easily be able to reduce that number by 2 or 3
orders of magnitude on 64-bit systems. Maybe more if you increase the
batch size.
http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-arch@vger.kernel.org/msg03956.html

vmap area manipulation scalability and search complexity could also be
improved quite easily, I suspect.


> > There are also a lot of trivial things you can do to make a lot of those
> > accesses not require vmaps (and less trivial things, but even such things
> > as binary searches over multiple pages should be quite possible with a
> > bit of logic).
>
> Yes, we already do the many of these things (via xfs_buf_offset()), but
> that is not good enough for something like a memcpy that spans multiple
> pages in a large block (think btree block compaction, splits and
> recombines).

fsblock_memcpy(fsblock *src, int soff, fsblock *dst, int doff, int size); ?


> IOWs, we already play these vmap harm-minimisation games in the places
> where we can, but still the overhead is high and something we'd prefer
> to be able to avoid.

I don't think you've looked very far with all this low hanging fruit.

The several ways I suggested combined might easily reduce xfs vmap
overhead by several orders of magnitude, all without changing much
code at all.

Can you provide a formula to reproduce these workloads where vmap
overhead in XFS is a problem? (huge IO capacity need not be an issue,
because I could try reproducing it on a 64-way on ramdisks for example).

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