lists.openwall.net   lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
 
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:	Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:30:32 +0200 (CEST)
From:	Mikulas Patocka <mikulas@...ax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz>
To:	Nick Piggin <npiggin@...e.de>
cc:	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...radead.org>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: LFENCE instruction (was: [rfc][patch 3/3] x86: optimise barriers)

> > You already must not place any data structures into WC memory --- for 
> > example, spinlocks wouldn't work there.
> 
> What do you mean "already"?

I mean "in current kernel" (I checked it in 2.6.22)

> If we already have drivers loading data from
> WC memory, then rmb() needs to order them, whether or not they actually
> need it. If that were prohibitively costly, then we'd introduce a new
> barrier which does not order WC memory, right?
> 
> 
> > wmb() also won't work on WC 
> > memory, because it assumes that writes are ordered.
> 
> You mean the one defined like this:
>   #define wmb()   asm volatile("sfence" ::: "memory")
> ? If it assumed writes are ordered, then it would just be a barrier().

You read wrong part of the include file. Really, it is 
(2.6.22,include/asm-i386/system.h):
#ifdef CONFIG_X86_OOSTORE
#define wmb() alternative("lock; addl $0,0(%%esp)", "sfence", 
X86_FEATURE_XMM)
#else
#define wmb()   __asm__ __volatile__ ("": : :"memory")
#endif

CONFIG_X86_OOSTORE is dependent on MWINCHIP3D || MWINCHIP2 || MWINCHIPC6
--- so on Intel and AMD, it is really just barrier().

So drivers can't assume that wmb() works on write-combining memory.

> > > Doing that would lead to an unmaintainable mess. If drivers don't 
> > > need rmb, then they don't call it.
> > 
> > If wmb() doesn't currently work on write-combining memory, why should 
> > rmb() work there?
> 
> I don't understand why you say wmb() doesn't work on WC memory.

Because it is defined as __asm__ __volatile__ ("": : :"memory")

And WC memory can reorder writes (WB memory can't).

> > The purpose of rmb() is to enforce ordering on architectures that don't 
> > force it in hardware --- that is not the case of x86.
> 
> Well it clearly is the case because I just pointed you to a document
> that says they can go out of order.

> If you want to argue that existing
> implementations do not, then by all means go ahead and send a patch to
> Linus and see what he says about it ;)

I mean this: wmb() assumes that the data to be ordered are not in WC 
memory. rmb() assumes that the data can be in WC memory (lfence is only 
useful on WC --- it doesn't have any effect on other memory types).

Mikulas
-
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists