Message-ID: <20071125215158.GD18284@stusta.de>
Date:	Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:51:58 +0100
From:	Adrian Bunk <bunk@...nel.org>
To:	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...k.pl>
Cc:	Adrian Bunk <bunk@...nel.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz <bzolnier@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC][PATCH] Update REPORTING-BUGS

On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 10:51:14PM +0100, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> On Sunday, 25 of November 2007, Adrian Bunk wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 25, 2007 at 09:57:09PM +0100, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > >...
> > > +Reporting Linux kernel bugs
> > >...
> > > +Usually, this requires you to do some more work than just sending an email
> > > +message with a bug report, but it often is necessary to collect all information
> > > +related to the reported bug in one place, so that it is easily accessible at
> > > +any time later.
> > 
> > I wouldn't say creating an account (if you don't already have one)
> > plus 5 additional mouse clicks per bug report are substancially more 
> > work.
> 
> Plus generating some information that it asks you for and that may or may not
> be relevant to your report.

What are you talking about?
The default text in the "Description:" field?

> > > +Email messages containing bug reports should generally be sent to the
> > > +Linux Kernel Mailing List (LKML) <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org> and to the
> > > +mailing list dedicated to the affected subsystem.
> > 
> > How should a newbie find the correct mailing list?
> 
> Read MAINTAINERS?  Ok, I should have said about that.
> 
> > Benchmark:
> > Easier than the "some more work" when using Bugzilla.
> 
> Nope.  Please try to file a report against libata/PATA using the Bugzilla.
> Good luck. ;-)

$ grep PATA MAINTAINERS
$ 

> > >...
> > > +It also is a good idea to notify the maintainer of the affected subsystem and
> > > +the maintainer of the tree in which the bug is present by adding their email
> > > +addresses to the Cc list of the bug report message.  The email addresses of
> > > +maintainers of the majority of kernel subsystems can be found in the MAINTAINERS
> > > +file, but you should not worry too much about getting a wrong person.
> > 
> > If you don't already know MAINTAINERS well then finding the right 
> > component in Bugzilla is much easier.
> 
> I disagree.  How a newbie is supposed to know what AIO and DIO mean and WTH is
> the difference between LVM2/DM and MD? 
> 
> I took only the IO/Storage submenu as an example, but there are other things
> like that.  For instance, what is the difference between "Flash/Memory
> Technology Devices" and MMC/SD?  Why "Hotplug" is under "Drivers" and WTH
> does it *mean*?  What "W1" means for that matter??  Etc.

Then let's get that improved.

> > > +If you know which patch has caused the problem to appear, you should also add
> > > +the email address of its author to the Cc list of your bug report (this address
> > > +is usually present in the 'From:' field of the patch header).  Additionally,
> > > +it is recommended to notify all of the people involved in the process of
> > > +merging the patch (you can find their addresses in the 'Signed-off-by:' and
> > > +'Acked-by:' or 'Reviewed-by:' fields of the patch header).  This way you can
> > > +increase the probability that someone "in the know" will notice the report and
> > > +respond to it quickly.  Apart from this, you should make it clear that your
> > > +message contains a bug report, for example by adding the word "BUG" in front
> > > +of the message's subject line.  If the bug is a regression (ie. one of the
> > > +previous kernel versions worked correctly), please put the word "REGRESSION" in
> > > +there instead.
> > > +
> > > +Unfortunately, sometimes bug reports are not responded to even if they contain
> > > +all of the right email addresses etc.  If that happens to your bug report, you
> > > +should first check if it has not been intercepted by a spam filter.  This is
> > > +easy if you have sent the report to a mailing list, since in that case it only
> > > +is necessary to look into the list's archives to see if the message is there.
> > > +If it turns out that the report has reached the list and no one is responding to
> > > +it, the developers might have overlooked it or they may be too busy to take care
> > > +of it right now.  In that case you should wait for some time (usually, a couple
> > > +of days) and send it once again (if you resend the report, you may add the word
> > > +"resend" to the message's subject to indicate that this is not the first time).
> > > +If that does not help and there still is no response, it is best to open a new
> > > +entry in the Bugzilla at http://bugzilla.kernel.org .  If you have already done
> > > +that, send messages to the appropriate lists and people periodically to remind
> > > +of the issue.
> > 
> > What about recommending a cronjob that resends the bug report every 
> > three days?   ;-)
> > 
> > Really, we must define _one_ way for people to report a bug, and how 
> > developers are reminded is _our_ job.
> 
> Well, who's "we" in that context?  IOW, who's job exactly it's supposed to be?

"we" = "we kernel developers"

And Natalie seems to be the person being paid for doing such stuff...

> > >...
> > > +Generally, the following things are appreciated in a bug report:
> > >...
> > 
> > If you expect people to read and follow this, wouldn't it be easier to
> > simply point them to open the bug in Bugzilla where we already have a
> > template asking these questions?
> 
> I don't think so and please refer to the examples above.
> 
> > You could replace the whole contents of this file with:
> > Go to http://bugzilla.kernel.org/ and click on "Enter a new bug report".
> > 
> > It's a pity that we manage to add/change an average of 100.000 bugs^Wlines
> > of code each month, but do not have one generally accepted and working 
> > process for bug reports.
> 
> It's a pity that we do not have one, indeed, and so perhaps it's a good idea
> to try to create one?  Not necessarily focusing on the Bugzilla for a little
> while. ;-)

I'm not focussed on Bugzilla.

But a submitter should send a bug report _once_ through one well-defined 
medium, this should result in the bug report not being lost, and every 
other communication of the submitter should be triggered by developers 
requesting additional information.

I don't care whether that's done with Bugzilla, some email based bug 
tracker like the Debian bug tracker, someone putting emails manually 
into some bug tracker like you are doing, or whatever else.

> Greetings,
> Rafael

cu
Adrian

-- 

       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

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