linux-kernel - Re: The ext3 way of journalling

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Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801081912230.3032@fbirervta.pbzchgretzou.qr>
Date:	Tue, 8 Jan 2008 19:20:58 +0100 (CET)
From:	Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@...putergmbh.de>
To:	Tuomo Valkonen <tuomov@....fi>
cc:	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: The ext3 way of journalling


On Jan 8 2008 17:48, Tuomo Valkonen wrote:
>
>> You can guess my answer: udev will fix it. 
>
>And break everything else, such as my symlinks, permissions, etc. 
>I'm not going to learn its cryptic special-case config files for 
>such trivial tasks as creating a fucking symlink or change the 
>permissions of a file, for which exist general purpose methods:
>chmod, chown, ln -s.

So create /sdev and fill it with all the device nodes that you deem
static and worthy of chowning. As far as sound goes, /dev/dsp and
/dev/snd/* is made writable by something called resmgr+hal+hal_resmgr
(yes, more clutter!). I have not worried about device permissions
in a long time. The only exception is vmware, but that is its very
own problem.

>> Mine plays very well.
>
>I was not talking of encrypted disks but cryptic udev config files,
>that the distros are going to break on every upgrade.

If yours does, then that is bad luck. Mine (again) does not.
That is what a distro is supposed to bring: a system that does not
break ("as much", if you like the extra) on an upgrade as if you
did upgrade software and such by hand.

>> May I remind you that the kernel also "loses" all your network interface 
>> configuration, routes, firewalling rules and all sysctl settings at 
>> boot (sic: reboot & powerdown).
>
>But traditional /dev does not lose permissions and symlinks. udev 
>tmpfs shadow brain damage does. You have to illogically and
>inconveniently edit udev's cryptic config files instead, and yet
>it in no way stops /dev from being modified.

If you dislike udev so much, why don't you just add

	chmod 666 /dev/*

to /etc/init.d/boot.local...

>> Distros have to decide whether to
>>
>> - not autoload a zillion of modules, potentially generating lots of 
>> crying "idiot" users
>>
>> - autoload a zillion of modules, potentially firing you up.
>
>And they most of them cater for idiot users, and the rest for
>develors what want to do it all from scratch. Mere power users
>who want to tune the system to their needs, but easily and without
>WIMPshit (through _simple_ self-documenting configuration files),
>are forgotten these days.

ISTR that most Windows programs do not even have a configuration
file, but store their bits and pieces in the *even more cryptic*
thing they call Registry. Do you prefer _that_?

>> Nonsense. The kernel notices udev about all available hardware and udev 
>> will load modules. It has nothing to do with initrd, in fact, this very 
>> step of loading a gazillion of modules is done after initrd has passed 
>> control on to /sbin/init. At least, in opensuse.
>
>I've never seen a system that would do so.

You just did not use the right distribution yet.
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