Message-ID: <48036AA6.2010000@linux.vnet.ibm.com>
Date:	Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:01:02 +0530
From:	Balbir Singh <balbir@...ux.vnet.ibm.com>
To:	"Serge E. Hallyn" <serue@...ibm.com>
CC:	Paul Menage <menage@...gle.com>,
	Linux Containers <containers@...ts.linux-foundation.org>,
	lkml <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Control Groups Roadmap ideas

Serge E. Hallyn wrote:
> Quoting Balbir Singh (balbir@...ux.vnet.ibm.com):
>> On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Serge E. Hallyn <serue@...ibm.com> wrote:
>>> Quoting Paul Menage (menage@...gle.com):
>>>  > This is a list of some of the sub-projects that I'm planning for
>>>  > Control Groups, or that I know others are planning on or working on.
>>>  > Any comments or suggestions are welcome.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > 1) Stateless subsystems
>>>  > -----
>>>  >
>>>  > This was motivated by the recent "freezer" subsystem proposal, which
>>>  > included a facility for sending signals to all members of a cgroup.
>>>  > This wasn't specifically freezer-related, and wasn't even something
>>>  > that needed particular per-cgroup state - its only state is that set
>>>  > of processes, which is already tracked by crgoups. So it could
>>>  > theoretically be mounted on multiple hierarchies at once, and wouldn't
>>>  > need an entry in the css_set array.
>>>  >
>>>  > This would require a few internal plumbing changes in cgroups, in particular:
>>>  >
>>>  > - hashing css_set objects based on their cgroups rather than their css pointers
>>>  > - allowing stateless subsystems to be in multiple hierarchies
>>>  > - changing the way hierarchy ids are calculated - simply ORing
>>>  > together the subsystem would no longer work since that could result in
>>>  > duplicates
>>>  >
>>>  > 2) More flexible binding/unbinding/rebinding
>>>  > -----
>>>  >
>>>  > Currently you can only add/remove subsystems to a hierarchy when it
>>>  > has just a single (root) cgroup. This is a bit inflexible, so I'm
>>>  > planning to support:
>>>  >
>>>  > - adding a subsystem to an existing hierarchy by automatically
>>>  > creating a subsys state object for the new subsystem for each existing
>>>  > cgroup in the hierarchy and doing the appropriate
>>>  > can_attach()/attach_tasks() callbacks for all tasks in the system
>>>  >
>>>  > - removing a subsystem from an existing hierarchy by moving all tasks
>>>  > to that subsystem's root cgroup and destroying the child subsystem
>>>  > state objects
>>>  >
>>>  > - merging two existing hierarchies that have identical cgroup trees
>>>  >
>>>  > - (maybe) splitting one hierarchy into two separate hierarchies
>>>  >
>>>  > Whether all these operations should be forced through the mount()
>>>  > system call, or whether they should be done via operations on cgroup
>>>  > control files, is something I've not figured out yet.
>>>
>>>  I'm tempted to ask what the use case is for this (I assume you have one,
>>>  you don't generally introduce features for no good reason), but it
>>>  doesn't sound like this would have any performance effect on the general
>>>  case, so it sounds good.
>>>
>>>  I'd stick with mount semantics.  Just
>>>         mount -t cgroup -o remount,devices,cpu none /devwh"
>>>  should handle all cases, no?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  > 3) Subsystem dependencies
>>>  > -----
>>>  >
>>>  > This would be a fairly simple change, essentially allowing one
>>>  > subsystem to require that it only be mounted on a hierarchy when some
>>>  > other subsystem was also present. The implementation would probably be
>>>  > a callback that allows a subsystem to confirm whether it's prepared to
>>>  > be included in a proposed hierarchy containing a specified subsystem
>>>  > bitmask; it would be able to prevent the hierarchy from being created
>>>  > by giving an error return. An example of a use for this would be a
>>>  > swap subsystem that is mostly independent of the memory controller,
>>>  > but uses the page-ownership tracking of the memory controller to
>>>  > determine which cgroup to charge swap pages to. Hence it would require
>>>  > that it only be mounted on a hierarchy that also included a memory
>>>  > controller. The memory controller would make no such requirement by
>>>  > itself, so could be used on its own without the swap controller.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > 4) Subsystem Inheritance
>>>  > ------
>>>  >
>>>  > This is an idea that I've been kicking around for a while trying to
>>>  > figure out whether its usefulness is worth the in-kernel complexity,
>>>  > versus doing it in userspace. It comes from the idea that although
>>>  > cgroups supports multiple hierarchies so that different subsystems can
>>>  > see different task groupings, one of the more common uses of this is
>>>  > (I believe) to support a setup where say we have separate groups A, B
>>>  > and C for one resource X, but for resource Y we want a group
>>>  > consisting of A+B+C. E.g. we want individual CPU limits for A, B and
>>>  > C, but for disk I/O we want them all to share a common limit. This can
>>>  > be done from userspace by mounting two hierarchies, one for CPU and
>>>  > one for disk I/O, and creating appropriate groupings, but it could
>>>  > also be done in the kernel as follows:
>>>  >
>>>  > - each subsystem "foo" would have a "foo.inherit" file provided by
>>>  > (and handled by) cgroups in each group directory
>>>  >
>>>  > - setting the foo.inherit flag (i.e. writing 1 to it) would cause
>>>  > tasks in that cgroup to share the "foo" subsystem state with the
>>>  > parent cgroup
>>>  >
>>>  > - from the subsystem's point of view, it would only need to worry
>>>  > about its own foo_cgroup objects  and which task was associated with
>>>  > each object; the subsystem wouldn't need to care about which tasks
>>>  > were part of each cgroup, and which cgroups were sharing state; that
>>>  > would all be taken care of by the cgroup framework
>>>  >
>>>  > I've mentioned this a couple of times on the containers list as part
>>>  > of other random discussions; at one point Serge Hallyn expressed some
>>>  > interest but there's not been much noise about it either way. I
>>>  > figured I'd include it on this list anyway to see what people think of
>>>  > it.
>>>
>>>  I guess I'm hoping that if libcg goes well then a userspace daemon can
>>>  do all we need.  Of course the use case I envision is having a container
>>>  which is locked to some amount of ram, wherein the container admin wants
>>>  to lock some daemon to a subset of that ram.  If the host admin lets the
>>>  container admin edit a config file (or talk to a daemon through some
>>>  sock designated for the container) that will only create a child of the
>>>  container's cgroup, that's probably great.
>>>
>> I thought of doing something like this in libcg (having a daemon and a
>> client socket interface), but dropped the idea later. When all
>> controllers support multi-levels well, the plan is to create a
>> sub-directory in the cgroup hierarchy and give subtree ownership to
>> the application administrator.
>>
>>>  So I'm basically being quiet until I see whether libcg will suffice.
>>>
>> If you do have any specific requirements, we can cater to them right
>> now. Please do let us know. The biggest challenge right now is getting
>> a stable API.
> 
> It sounds like what you're talking about should suffice - the container
> can only write to its own subdirectory, and the control files therein
> should not allow the container to escape the bounds set for it, only to
> partition it.
> 
> The only thing that worries me is how subtle it may turn out to be to
> properly set up a container this way.  I.e. you'll need to
> 	mount --bind /etc/cgroups/mycontainer /vps/container1/etc/cgroups
> before the container is off and running and be able to then prevent
> the cgroup from mounting the host's /etc any other way.
> 
> As in so many other cases it shouldn't be too difficult with selinux,
> otherwise I suppose one thing you could do is to put the host's
> /etc/cgroup (or really the host's /) on partitionN, mount
> /etc/cgroup/container from another partitionM, and use the device
> whitelist (eventually, device namespaces) to allow the container to
> mount partitionM but not partitionN.
> 
> So that's the one place where kernel support might be kind of seductive,
> but I suspect it would just lead to either an unsafe, an inflexible, or
> just a hokey "solution".  So let's stick with libcg for now.  A daemon
> can always be written on top of it if people want, and if at some point
> we see a real need for kernel support we can talk about it then.
> 

Sounds fair to me. We intend to provide the basis for building a good daemon if
ever required. You see left overs in libcg.h (that I need to clean up).

> Thanks, Balbir.
> 
>>>  > 5) "procs" control file
>>>  > -----
>>>  >
>>>  > This would be the equivalent of the "tasks" file, but acting/reporting
>>>  > on entire thread groups. Not sure exactly what the read semantics
>>>  > should be if a sub-thread of a process is in the cgroup, but not its
>>>  > thread group leader.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > 6) Statistics / binary API
>>>  > ----
>>>  >
>>>  > Balaji Rao is working on a generic way to gather per-subsystem
>>>  > statistics; it would also be interesting to construct an extensible
>>>  > binary API via taskstats. One possible way to do this (taken from my
>>>  > email earlier today) would be:
>>>  >
>>>  > With the taskstats interface, we could have operations to:
>>>  >
>>>  > - describe the API exported by a given subsystem (automatically
>>>  > generated, based on its registered control files and their access
>>>  > methods)
>>>  >
>>>  > - retrieve a specified set of stats in a binary format
>>>  >
>>>  > So as a concrete example, with the memory, cpuacct and cpu subsystems
>>>  > configured, the reported API might look something like (in pseudo-code
>>>  > form)
>>>  >
>>>  > 0 : memory.usage_in_bytes : u64
>>>  > 1 : memory.limit_in_bytes : u64
>>>  > 2 : memory.failcnt : u64
>>>  > 3 : memory.stat : map
>>>  > 4 : cpuacct.usage : u64
>>>  > 5 : cpu.shares : u64
>>>  > 6 : cpu.rt_runtime_ms : s64
>>>  > 7 : cpu.stat : map
>>>  >
>>>  > This list would be auto-generated by cgroups based on inspection of
>>>  > the control files.
>>>  >
>>>  > The user could then request stats 0, 3 and 7 for a cgroup to get the
>>>  > memory.usage_in_bytes, memory.stat and cpu.stat statistics.
>>>  >
>>>  > The stats could be returned in a binary format; the format for each
>>>  > individual stat would depend on the type of that stat, and these could
>>>  > be simply concatenated together.
>>>  >
>>>  > A u64 or s64 stat would simply be a 64-bit value in the data stream
>>>  >
>>>  > A map stat would be represented as a sequence of 64-bit values,
>>>  > representing the values in the map. There would be no need to include
>>>  > the size of the map or the key ordering in the binary format, since
>>>  > userspace could determine that by reading the ASCII version of the map
>>>  > control file once at startup.
>>>  >
>>>  > So in the case of the request above for stats 0, 3 & 7, the binary
>>>  > stats stream would be a sequence of 64-bit values consisting of:
>>>  >
>>>  > <memory.usage>
>>>  > <memory.stat.cache>
>>>  > <memory.stat.rss>
>>>  > <memory.stat.active>
>>>  > <memory.stat.inactive>
>>>  > <cpu.stat.utime>
>>>  > <cpu.stat.stime>
>>>  >
>>>  > If more stats were added to memory.stat or cpu.stat by a future
>>>  > version of the code, then they would automatically appear; any that
>>>  > userspace didn't understand it could ignore.
>>>  >
>>>  > The userspace side of this could be handled by libcg.
>>>  >
>> Yes, it can be easily handled by libcg. I think this is an important
>> piece of the cgroup infrastructure.
>>
>>>  > 8) Subsystems from modules
>>>  > ------
>>>  >
>>>  > Having completely unknown subsystems registered at run time would
>>>  > involve adding a bunch of complexity and additional locking to cgroups
>>>  > - but allowing a subsystem to be known at compile time but just
>>>  > stubbed until first mounted (at which time its module would be loaded)
>>>  > should increase the flexibility of cgroups without hurting its
>>>  > complexity or performance.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > 7) New subsystems
>>>  > -----
>>>  >
>>>  > - Swap, disk I/O - already being worked on by others
>>>  >
>>>  > - OOM handler. Exactly what semantics this should provide aren't 100%
>>>  > clear. At Google we have a useful OOM handler that allows root to
>>>  > intercept OOMs as they're about to happen, and take appropriate action
>>>  > such as killing some other lower-priority job to free up memory, etc.
>>>  > Another useful feature of this subsystem might be to allow a process
>>>  > in that cgroup to get an early notification that its cgroup is getting
>>>  > close to OOM. This needs to be a separate subsystem since it could be
>>>  > used to provide OOM notification/handling for localized OOMs caused
>>>  > either by cpusets or the memory controller.
>>>  >
>>>  > - network tx/rx isolation. The cleanest way that we've found to do
>>>  > this is to provide a per-cgroup id which can be exposed as a traffic
>>>  > filter for regular Linux traffic control - then you can construct
>>>  > arbitrary network queueing structures without requiring any new APIs,
>>>  > and tie flows from particular cgroups into the appropriate queues.
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > 8) per-mm owner field
>>>  > ----
>>>  >
>>>  > To remove the need for per-subsystem counted references from the mm.
>>>  > Being developed by Balbir Singh
>>>
>> I have version 9 out. It has all the review comments incorporated. If
>> the patch seems reasonable, I'll ask Andrew to include it.
>>
>>>  I'm slooowly trying to whip together a swapfile namespace - not a
>>>  cgroup - which ties a swapfns to a list of swapfiles (where each
>>>  swapfile belongs to only one swapfns).  So I also need an mm->task
>>>  pointer of some kind.  I've got my own in my patches right now but
>>>  sure do hope to make use of Balbir's mm owner field.
>> Serge, do you have any specific requirements for the mm owner field.
>> Will the current patch meet your requirements (including
>> mm_owner_changed field callbacks)?
> 
> I'm behind in versions, but the last I took a look it looked great.

Thanks, that would be nice. I've just asked Andrew to include it, if there are
no objections.

> 
> thanks,
> -serge
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-- 
	Warm Regards,
	Balbir Singh
	Linux Technology Center
	IBM, ISTL
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