Message-ID: <alpine.LNX.1.00.0806021430370.19665@iabervon.org>
Date:	Mon, 2 Jun 2008 15:30:19 -0400 (EDT)
From:	Daniel Barkalow <barkalow@...ervon.org>
To:	Rick van Rein <rick@...engemak.nl>
cc:	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Future Linux on Bistable Storage

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008, Rick van Rein wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> Future generations of Linux are likely to run on machines with non-volatile
> memories based on bistable technologies.  This will save the energy of DRAM
> refresh cycles and avoid the mechanical problems related to hard disks.  The
> result is probably a computer with no distinction between disk and RAM.

One major difference between disk and RAM is the tradeoffs between size, 
speed, and price. It's highly unlikely that any one technology will ever 
beat all others in both of the usage patterns which are normal for RAM and 
disk in devices considered by their users to be "computers".

> 
> Such computer architectures can conserve a lot of energy, as it is very
> simple to suspend and resume them: no data loss means no time needed to
> resume the system -- except perhaps for I/O initialisation.  Conserving
> energy means (1) having more fun|hours per kg of batteries, and (2) saving
> the planet.
> 
> 
> I wonder inhowfar Linux is (already) capable of dealing with such hardware.
> Several core concepts suddenly become meaningless if disk and RAM are merged
> into one storage device:
>  * swapping out data

CONFIG_SWAP=n

>  * buffering disk blocks

I think current ramdisk code skips it.

>  * lazy loading of programs from disk to RAM
>  * mapping and unmapping disk onto RAM

You still need the distinction between what's in a process's address space 
and what's in the filesystem, in order to have a system that feels like a 
computer.

> Regarding I/O init: Current Linux boots while initiating one device at a
> time.  Some degree of serialism must exist, but after scanning a bus would
> it not be possible to fork threads to initiate each of the devices found
> on it?  Am I overlooking details or could this be a useful change?

Userspace setup stuff hugely dominates boot time. Some drivers, and it's 
not known which, only successfully initialize on the assumption that some 
other drivers are not initializing hardware at the same time. This has 
been tried, and it (a) had some hard-to-track bugs and (b) didn't help 
enough to be worth dealing with.

> If it is possible, it would make Linux _much_ quicker to boot (also on
> current hardware), and it could even make it acceptable to do a suspend
> after a _very_ short time (say, a minute) of non-activity.

Writing all of RAM to disk burns more power than powering RAM for several 
minutes, even assuming you don't have to spin up the hard drive. For that 
matter, restarting the system will power up all of the devices on the bus 
that you've shut down because you're not using them.

> It'd be an easy way to save some trees :)

You have a wood-fired power plant?

> In the long run, it seems fair to assume that all devices, including
> processors, would use non-volatile buffers based on one of the bistable
> semiconductor devices currently being developed; but I would not be
> surprised if at first we will be working with computers that have older
> parts mixed in; boards that still forget their registers when switched off.

In general, any time you switch drivers or kernel versions, you'll want to 
have the device return all of its registers to a default state and take it 
through an initialization process. For that matter, even if the memory 
keeps its state, on power failure some calcuations will have been done and 
some will not, so the resulting storage will be in some unknown state and 
need to be reinitialized from storage that wasn't changing.

> But in the end I expect the entire system to switch itself off in between
> every two keystrokes (!) simply because loosing no data anywhere in the
> system means being able to resume operations at the next whim/interrupt.

It's likely that the power cost of getting a consistant state to the 
bistable memory will be more than the idle power required for a couple of 
seconds.

	-Daniel
*This .sig left intentionally blabk*
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