linux-kernel - Re: TALPA - a threat model? well sorta.

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Message-Id: <1218646833.3540.82.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Date:	Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:00:33 -0400
From:	Eric Paris <eparis@...hat.com>
To:	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc:	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, malware-list@...ts.printk.net,
	andi@...stfloor.org, riel@...hat.com, greg@...ah.com,
	tytso@....edu, viro@...IV.linux.org.uk, arjan@...radead.org,
	peterz@...radead.org, hch@...radead.org
Subject: Re: TALPA - a threat model?  well sorta.

On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 17:37 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:47:45 -0400
> Eric Paris <eparis@...hat.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 17:24 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> > > > So, what is it that anti-malware companies do?  They scan files.  That's
> > > > it. 
> > > 
> > > Good so lets instead have a discussion about making the file event
> > > notification more scalable. That is the same thing I want for content
> > > indexing. It is the same thing you want for certain kinds of smart
> > > archiving, for on-line asynchronous backup and other stuff.
> > > 
> > > It ought to be a simple clean syscall interface.
> > 
> > Are you willing to make it blocking?  I'm not sure how to make what we
> > have capable of assuring that the object you got a notification about is
> > actually the object you are acting on.  Thoughts on how to accomplish
> > that?  I'm here to code and I'm willing to throw all my work in the
> > garbage if someone can show me how to actually do it better.
> 
> I don't think you need to be blocking if you passed up a file handle ?

Without blocking and waiting how do you deny access?  Maybe I needed
another thing they do.  "They do file scanning and deny access to bad
files."

async scanning on close/write is great.  but you need blocking/access
control on open/read.....

> 	fd = fileeventmumble(somestuff);
> 	do_stuff
> 	close(fd);
> 
> [taking care not to end up recursing as a result]

[you pointed out the whole point of process exclusions in the original
work]

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