linux-kernel - Re: [GIT PULL] Squashfs pull request for 2.6.29

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Message-ID: <4978EBE1.9080403@oracle.com>
Date:	Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:57:53 -0800
From:	Randy Dunlap <randy.dunlap@...cle.com>
To:	Dave Jones <davej@...hat.com>, Greg KH <gregkh@...e.de>,
	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@...ux-m68k.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Jörn Engel <joern@...fs.org>,
	David Brown <lkml@...idb.org>,
	Phil Oester <kernel@...uxace.com>,
	Kay Sievers <kay.sievers@...y.org>,
	Phillip Lougher <phillip@...gher.demon.co.uk>,
	Christoph Hellwig <hch@...radead.org>,
	torvalds@...ux-foundation.org, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	linux-fsdevel@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [GIT PULL] Squashfs pull request for 2.6.29

Dave Jones wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 08:30:18AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:
> 
>  > I was wanting to stick with drivers to start with, but I really have no
>  > objection to adding filesystems, if they are self-contained, to the
>  > drivers/staging/ directory.
>  > 
>  > I looked at adding squashfs, but at the time, it touched other portions
>  > of the kernel which wouldn't have made it a good canidate for staging.
>  > This was later resolved, and now that it is merged, it's a moot issue :)
>  > 
>  > So, if anyone wants to send me filesystems, I'll be glad to take them
>  > into drivers/staging, as long as they are self-contained (novfs for
>  > example would fit this category.)
> 
> Filesystems in staging worries me.
> 
> * The number of people who competently review filesystem code
>   (and I mean real review here, not checkpatch & codingstyle crap)
>   is significantly less than those who review drivers.
>   I foresee stuff just lingering there for years.
>   (Look how long fs stuff hangs around unmerged in -mm for example).
>  
> * The fallout of staging is already starting to drift into distros.
>   Within a week of Fedora shipping a kernel that had staging/
>   we had requests to enable drivers from it.
>   And of course, those drivers were garbage.
>   This is only going to increase as time goes on.
> 
> * For crap drivers that a minority cares about, this isn't a big deal
>   to tell the users "build it yourself, we don't support it when stuff breaks".
>   (And a lot of that crap will break.  NetworkManager won't work properly
>    with some of the wireless crap in staging for example), but by
>   continually adding to the shitpile the potential for review dramatically
>   gets reduced, and for something as critical as a filesystem, I find this
>   absolutely terrifying from a support perspective.
> 
> I don't mean to piss on your parade, but from my viewpoint, staging
> is a trainwreck so far, and I'd hate to see it get worse.
> 
> We've already demonstrated "look how much stuff we can merge" time and
> time again, but no-one ever seems to have a proposal for how we increase
> the amount of review code gets before it's merged.
> 
> There's lowering the barrier for entry, and there's not having a barrier at all.
> The latter is what I'm concerned that staging/ has become.

I agree.  Alexey D. asked about that a few days ago and the Greg's answer
about what he would accept was "anything".  Ugh ugh ugh.  I did not like
that reply at all.

I agree that crap is the right name for lots of it.  For the ones that
people & distros care about, someone should step up and do some real
work on them.



~Randy
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