linux-kernel - Re: Linux 2.6.29

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Message-ID: <49C93AB0.6070300@garzik.org>
Date:	Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:55:28 -0400
From:	Jeff Garzik <jeff@...zik.org>
To:	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@...ux-foundation.org>
CC:	Theodore Tso <tytso@....edu>, Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>,
	Alan Cox <alan@...rguk.ukuu.org.uk>,
	Arjan van de Ven <arjan@...radead.org>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl>,
	Nick Piggin <npiggin@...e.de>,
	Jens Axboe <jens.axboe@...cle.com>,
	David Rees <drees76@...il.com>, Jesper Krogh <jesper@...gh.cc>,
	Linux Kernel Mailing List <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: Linux 2.6.29

Linus Torvalds wrote:
> But I really don't understand filesystem people who think that "fsck" is 
> the important part, regardless of whether the data is valid or not. That's 
> just stupid and _obviously_ bogus.

I think I can understand that point of view, at least:

More customers complain about hours-long fsck times than they do about 
silent data corruption of non-fsync'd files.

> The point is, if you write your metadata earlier (say, every 5 sec) and 
> the real data later (say, every 30 sec), you're actually MORE LIKELY to 
> see corrupt files than if you try to write them together.
> 
> And if you write your data _first_, you're never going to see corruption 
> at all.

Amen.

And, personal filesystem pet peeve:  please encourage proper FLUSH CACHE 
use to give users the data guarantees they deserve.  Linux's sync(2) and 
fsync(2) (and fdatasync, etc.) should poke the block layer to guarantee 
a media write.

	Jeff

P.S.  Overall, I am thrilled that this ext3/ext4 transition and 
associated slashdotting has spurred debate over filesystem data 
guarantees.  This is the kind of discussion that has needed to happen 
for years, IMO.

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