Message-ID: <20090401222352.GY11935@one.firstfloor.org>
Date:	Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:23:52 +0200
From:	Andi Kleen <andi@...stfloor.org>
To:	Gregory Haskins <ghaskins@...ell.com>
Cc:	Andi Kleen <andi@...stfloor.org>, linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org,
	agraf@...e.de, pmullaney@...ell.com, pmorreale@...ell.com,
	anthony@...emonkey.ws, rusty@...tcorp.com.au,
	netdev@...r.kernel.org, kvm@...r.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH 00/17] virtual-bus

On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 04:29:57PM -0400, Gregory Haskins wrote:
> > description?
> >   
> Yes, good point.  I will be sure to be more explicit in the next rev.
> 
> >   
> >> So the administrator can then set these attributes as
> >> desired to manipulate the configuration of the instance of the device,
> >> on a per device basis.
> >>     
> >
> > How would the guest learn of any changes in there?
> >   
> The only events explicitly supported by the infrastructure of this
> nature would be device-add and device-remove.  So when an admin adds or
> removes a device to a bus, the guest would see driver::probe() and
> driver::remove() callbacks, respectively.  All other events are left (by
> design) to be handled by the device ABI itself, presumably over the
> provided shm infrastructure.

Ok so you rely on a transaction model where everything is set up
before it is somehow comitted to the guest? I hope that is made
explicit in the interface somehow.

> This script creates two buses ("client-bus" and "server-bus"),
> instantiates a single venet-tap on each of them, and then "wires" them
> together with a private bridge instance called "vbus-br0".  To complete
> the picture here, you would want to launch two kvms, one of each of the
> client-bus/server-bus instances.  You can do this via /proc/$pid/vbus.  E.g.
> 
> # (echo client-bus > /proc/self/vbus; qemu-kvm -hda client.img....)
> # (echo server-bus > /proc/self/vbus; qemu-kvm -hda server.img....)
> 
> (And as noted, someday qemu will be able to do all the setup that the
> script did, natively.  It would wire whatever tap it created to an
> existing bridge with qemu-ifup, just like we do for tun-taps today)

The usual problem with that is permissions. Just making qemu-ifup suid
it not very nice.  It would be good if any new design addressed this.

> the current code doesnt support rw on the mac attributes yet..i need a
> parser first).

parser in kernel space always sounds scary to me.


> 
> Yeah, ultimately I would love to be able to support a fairly wide range
> of the normal userspace/kernel ABI through this mechanism.  In fact, one
> of my original design goals was to somehow expose the syscall ABI
> directly via some kind of syscall proxy device on the bus.  I have since

That sounds really scary for security. 


> backed away from that idea once I started thinking about things some
> more and realized that a significant number of system calls are really
> inappropriate for a guest type environment due to their ability to
> block.   We really dont want a vcpu to block.....however, the AIO type

Not only because of blocking, but also because of security issues.
After all one of the usual reasons to run a guest is security isolation.

In general the more powerful the guest API the more risky it is, so some
self moderation is probably a good thing.

-Andi
-- 
ak@...ux.intel.com -- Speaking for myself only.
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