linux-kernel - Re: [PATCH 4/8] proc: export more page flags in /proc/kpageflags

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Message-ID: <20090511220834.GA26614@elte.hu>
Date:	Tue, 12 May 2009 00:08:34 +0200
From:	Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu>
To:	Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org>
Cc:	fengguang.wu@...el.com, fweisbec@...il.com, rostedt@...dmis.org,
	a.p.zijlstra@...llo.nl, lizf@...fujitsu.com,
	linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org, kosaki.motohiro@...fujitsu.com,
	andi@...stfloor.org, mpm@...enic.com, adobriyan@...il.com,
	linux-mm@...ck.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 4/8] proc: export more page flags in /proc/kpageflags

* Andrew Morton <akpm@...ux-foundation.org> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:45:54 +0200
> Ingo Molnar <mingo@...e.hu> wrote:
> 
> > > Yes, we could place pagemap's two auxiliary files into debugfs but 
> > > it would be rather stupid to split the feature's control files 
> > > across two pseudo filesystems, one of which may not even exist.  
> > > Plus pagemap is not a kernel debugging feature.
> > 
> > That's not what i'm suggesting though.
> > 
> > What i'm suggesting is that there's a zillion ways to enumerate 
> > and index various kernel objects, doing that in /proc is 
> > fundamentally wrong. And there's no need to create a per PID/TID 
> > directory structure in /debug either, to be able to list and 
> > access objects by their PID.
> 
> The problem with procfs was that it was growing a lot of random 
> non-process-related stuff.  We never deprecated procfs - we 
> decided that it should be retained for its original purpose and 
> that non-process-realted things shouldn't go in there.
> 
> The /proc/<pid>/pagemap file clearly _is_ process-related, and 
> /proc/<pid> is the natural and correct place for it to live.
> 
> Yes, sure, there are any number of ways in which that data could 
> be presented to userspace in other locations and via other means.  
> But there would need to be an extraordinarily good reason for 
> violating the existing paradigm/expectation/etc.

It has also been clearly demonstrated in this thread that people 
want more enumeration than just the the process dimension. 

_Especially_ for an object like pages. Often most of the memory in a 
Linux system is _not mapped to any process_. It is in the page 
cache. Still, /proc enumeration does not capture it. Why? Because 
IMO it has been done at the wrong layer, at the wrong abstraction 
level.

Yes, /proc is for process enumeration (as the name tells us 
already), but it is not really suitable as a general object 
enumerator for kernel debugging or kernel instrumentation purposes. 

By putting kernel instrumentation into /proc, we limit all _future_ 
enumeration greatly. Instead of adding just another iterator 
(walker), we now have to move the whole thing across into another 
domain (which is being resisted, and /proc is an ABI anyway).

It's all doable, but a lot harder if it's not being relized why it's 
important to do it.

	Ingo
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